Are you ready for some NFL Football? 2014 Edition.

[club ho]

You and others keep trying to come up with all these crazy scenarios to prove Brady was ignorant of this or that an act of cheating didn't occur. When you consider the preponderance of the evidence, along with the history of cheating prevalent in that organization, the ONLY logical conclusion that can be drawn is they frickin deflated the balls purposefully. Who knows how it happened, it did, which is the salient point here.

If it is determined that a drop in temperature caused the balls to deflate then that would explain the deflation correct?

I am sure you will then counter with: Well why didn't the Colts ball deflate?

Bottom line until we get all the actual facts of what, where and when the balls were checked we both are just making conjecture to explain our points. Given we live in a society that we are innocent until proven guilty the PATS are not guilty of anything at this point. In fact I do not believe they have been charged with anything.

[Golfingdad]

You and others keep trying to come up with all these crazy scenarios to prove Brady was ignorant of this or that an act of cheating didn't occur. When you consider the preponderance of the evidence, along with the history of cheating prevalent in that organization, the ONLY logical conclusion that can be drawn is they frickin deflated the balls purposefully. Who knows how it happened, it did, which is the salient point here.

They're not crazy scenarios and there really isn't a "preponderance of evidence" at this point.  Half of the things that have been taken as "evidence" to help crucify them have been since proven to have been false - or at the very least not corroborated.

First it was D'Qell Jackson who noticed the under-inflated ball after his interception.  Then he denied that and it was a Colts official.  Then it turned out that it was the Ravens that complained a week earlier.  Then it came out that the Colts complained several weeks earlier.

My contention is that as long as the "evidence" is made up entirely of leaks, innuendo and anonymous sources, especially ones that contradict each other, its irresponsible to draw any definitive conclusions.

If we get to base everything off of "reports" then I get to post stuff like this and say "case closed." http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_nfl_approved_under_inflated_balls_from_patriots/18162203?linksrc=story_sitewide_yardbarker_footer_head_18162203  It can't just be only one side that gets to be irresponsible with the "facts."

[club ho]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/sports-physicist-says-temperature-could-have-caused-football-deflation-234639741.html

This along with a lack of reasonable evidence from the NFL exonerates the PATS.

[Golfingdad]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/sports-physicist-says-temperature-could-have-caused-football-deflation-234639741.html

This along with a lack of reasonable evidence from the NFL exonerates the PATS.

It does no such thing.  They'd only be exonerated when its proven that they didn't mess with the balls.  The only thing that would exonerate them would be if the ref (or the NFL) actually came out and admitted that he did not check the balls thoroughly beforehand.  Short of that happening, all that is left is unproven accusations, but there isn't anything else that will exonerate them.

No matter what else happens, unless that happens, this will just add to their "cheating" legacy in the eyes of a lot of people.

If they win it's because "they are cheaters," and if they lose it's because "they couldn't cheat because they were being scrutinized and the only way for them to win is cheating."

[dsc123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by club ho

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/sports-physicist-says-temperature-could-have-caused-football-deflation-234639741.html

This along with a lack of reasonable evidence from the NFL exonerates the PATS.

Umm.....

Quote:

Suppose the referees in their pregame routine checked the game balls in a locker room at 70 degrees Fahrenheit. When the Patriots and Indianapolis Colts kicked off, the temperature was 51 degrees Fahrenheit. According to Goff, a ball at the league minimum of 12.5 PSI would then be at about 11.5 PSI “because as temperature drops, pressure in the ball drops.”

This would continue and if the temperature dropped another 10 degrees to 41 degrees Fahrenheit as the game went on, the pressure of the ball would be about 11 PSI.

So....no, that's not what he said.  When someone qualifies their calculation with "if", that mean's he's making stuff up.

For example, the bold part--where he gets to 11 PSI (which of course, is not 10.5), assumes that the temp was 41 when tested.  It wasn't.  Game time was 630pm EST, or 23:30 GMT on January 18.  Halftime was probably something like 0130 GMT, January 19.  http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base.cgi?stn=KOWD&year1;=2015&month1;=01&day1;=19&hour1;=3&past;=1&time;=GMT

So back into EST

6:53pm - 52*F

7:53pm - 51

8:53pm - 52

9:53pm - 51

Publicly available information.

Do you even read things that you post here?

Quote:

If the ball is retested at a later time at the same temperature at which the ref tested it prior to the game, the ball should be back to its old pressure because it would have warmed from game temperatures to testing temperatures.  Again, no air would have left the ball."

.....

“Where deflate-gate gets sticky is that retested balls were found to be at lower pressures," Goff said. "As long as the retesting was done in the same environmental conditions as the referee's initial pre-game test, the most probable way for the pressure to be lower, assuming no leaks due to tears, is for air to have been let out.

[Abu3baid]

Umm..... So....no, that's not what he said.  When someone qualifies their calculation with "if", that mean's he's making stuff up.   For example, the bold part--where he gets to 11 PSI (which of course, is not 10.5), assumes that the temp was 41 when tested.  It wasn't.  Game time was 630pm EST, or 23:30 GMT on January 18.  Halftime was probably something like 0130 GMT, January 19.  [URL=http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base.cgi?stn=KOWD&year1;=2015&month1;=01&day1;=19&hour1;=3&past;=1&time;=GMT]http://mesowest.utah.edu/cgi-bin/droman/meso_base.cgi?stn=KOWD&year1;=2015&month1;=01&day1;=19&hour1;=3&past;=1&time;=GMT[/URL] So back into EST 6:53pm - 52*F 7:53pm - 51 8:53pm - 52 9:53pm - 51 Publicly available information.   Do you even read things that you post here?

I had to laugh after reading this post.. I didn't even bother reading the article he attached, but since he is Brady's personal cheerleader, he will never allow facts to get in the way of his love for Brady and the pats.

[Golfingdad]

Do you even read things that you post here?

“Where deflate-gate gets sticky is that retested balls were found to be at lower pressures," Goff said. "As long as the retesting was done in the same environmental conditions as the referee's initial pre-game test, the most probable way for the pressure to be lower, assuming no leaks due to tears, is for air to have been let out.

I'm surprised nobody has considered this before.  Instead of inflating them in a super hot room initially, maybe Brady punctured them with the finest Valyrian steel needle or Hattori Hanzo sword tip to ensure that just enough air will leak out after the legal testing is done.  How ingeious would that be?  Nobody need tamper with the balls after they were tested.

Oh, and that could explain his odd answer when he was asked if he was a cheater.  He said "I don't believe so."  He had to be vague like that because he's thinking to himself, "Hey, they keep telling me they can't be altered AFTER they are tested ... NOBODY told me I couldn't alter them beforehand.  I'm just like Aaron Rodgers.  Ar - aren't I?"

Case solved!!

[phan52]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/sports-physicist-says-temperature-could-have-caused-football-deflation-234639741.html

This along with a lack of reasonable evidence from the NFL exonerates the PATS.

LOL!! Local physics in New England that day just selectively deflated ALL of the Pats balls but NONE of the Colts?

We know you probably can't help being an apologist but, please, stop. you are embarrassing yourself.

[Gunther]

If it is determined that a drop in temperature caused the balls to deflate then that would explain the deflation correct? I am sure you will then counter with: Well why didn't the Colts ball deflate?  Bottom line until we get all the actual facts of what, where and when the balls were checked we both are just making conjecture to explain our points. Given we live in a society that we are innocent until proven guilty the PATS are not guilty of anything at this point. In fact I do not believe they have been charged with anything.

Only thing to say here is "lol." [quote name="Golfingdad" url="/t/76052/are-you-ready-for-some-nfl-football-2014-edition/1440_40#post_1099622"]They're not crazy scenarios and there really isn't a "preponderance of evidence" at this point.  Half of the things that have been taken as "evidence" to help crucify them have been since proven to have been false - or at the very least not corroborated. First it was D'Qell Jackson who noticed the under-inflated ball after his interception.  Then he denied that and it was a Colts official.  Then it turned out that it was the Ravens that complained a week earlier.  Then it came out that the Colts complained several weeks earlier. My contention is that as long as the "evidence" is made up entirely of leaks, innuendo and anonymous sources, especially ones that contradict each other, its irresponsible to draw any definitive conclusions. If we get to base everything off of "reports" then I get to post stuff like this and say "case closed." [URL=http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_nfl_approved_under_inflated_balls_from_patriots/18162203?linksrc=story_sitewide_yardbarker_footer_head_18162203]http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_nfl_approved_under_inflated_balls_from_patriots/18162203?linksrc=story_sitewide_yardbarker_footer_head_18162203[/URL]  It can't just be only one side that gets to be irresponsible with the "facts." [/quote] Only thing to say here is, "yes, and OJ was innocent."

[Golfingdad]

Only thing to say here is, "yes, and OJ was innocent."

If you think the undisputed facts of this case at this point are as cut and dried as the facts pointing towards OJ's guilt, then ...

Only thing to say here is "lol."

[phan52]

If you think the undisputed facts of this case at this point are as cut and dried as the facts pointing towards OJ's guilt, then ...

Like the OJ case, the evidence is largely circumstantial and, like the OJ case, the Pats will always be guilty in the court of public opinion.

[Golfingdad]

Like the OJ case, the evidence is largely circumstantial and, like the OJ case, the Pats will always be guilty in the court of public opinion.

But unlike the OJ case, the evidence is still only being shared second or thirdhand.  Does anybody remember what their opinion was of the whole scenario in the window between the deaths and the Bronco chase?

I certainly don't, but I know it wasn't as sure as it is now or as it was immediately following the Bronco chase (or at least immediately following Kim's dads reading of the suicide note).

When the NFL concludes that the balls were definitely in order and the Pats definitely cheated then we can put any other possibilities to bed.  Until they say anything though, the possibilities remain.

You are 100% on the last part though, no question.

[club ho]

It does no such thing.  They'd only be exonerated when its proven that they didn't mess with the balls.  The only thing that would exonerate them would be if the ref (or the NFL) actually came out and admitted that he did not check the balls thoroughly beforehand.  Short of that happening, all that is left is unproven accusations, but there isn't anything else that will exonerate them.

No matter what else happens, unless that happens, this will just add to their "cheating" legacy in the eyes of a lot of people.

If they win it's because "they are cheaters," and if they lose it's because "they couldn't cheat because they were being scrutinized and the only way for them to win is cheating."

If the NFL can prove that balls were messed with then the Pats would be guilty. A 90 second pit stop is not proof so where did the balls get messed with?

Again I think we both agree that until hard facts are presented on everything we can only surmise what happened. If all the people involved said that the PATS were innocent and were proven to be innocent by science the Haters would still call the Pats cheaters.

[dsc123]

OJ was innocent.

[Gunther]

OJ was innocent.

Scares me a little that you didn't accompany that with an emoji of some type.

[Golfingdad]

OJ was innocent.

Scares me a little that you didn't accompany that with an emoji of some type.

Lol, nah, that takes the fun out of it.  Even on a message board, you gotta go for the dry, deadpan, humor occasionally.

(Or, @dsc123 is cuckoo for cocoa puffs.  One or the other. )

[Golfingdad]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12244290/ex-quarterback-jeff-blake-deflating-footballs-common

[saevel25]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12244290/ex-quarterback-jeff-blake-deflating-footballs-common

SAY IT AINT SO!!! I thought it was only the Patriots who would do this. I mean they are consistent cheaters! It can only be them who cheated!

or not,

Quote:

"I'm just going to let the cat of the bag, every team does it, every game, it has been since I played," Blake said. "'Cause when you take the balls out of the bag, they are rock hard. And you can't feel the ball as well. It's too hard. Everybody puts the pin in and lets just enough air out of the ball that you can feel it a little better. But it's not the point to where it's flat.

"So I don't know what the big deal is. It's not something that's not been done for 20 years."

Wait, maybe this whole uproar is because it is the Patriots and they have owned the NFL for the past decade.