The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread

[jusanothajoe]

Uhhh.. You don't believe that.. Unless what you are saying is that the penalties are not harsh enough for drunk driving for example..

When I questioned the percentage decrease in incidents if the penalty for drunk drive killing was the death penalty I was laughed at and told that there is no correlation between the penalty and what people do, since they don't think the will kill anyone if they drive, because it won't happen to them..

Either case, I have to admitnibam surprised at the here number of people on TST supporting drug use, but hey as long as it is not them and as long as the users agree to donut in their own home... Yeah, right! Although I don't believe that it is a representation of the rest of the population as I'm sure I surveyed a high percentage of people would say drugs are bad don't legalize!

You are no more surprised than me. Has really floored me the number on here that are for legalizing drugs. Notice none will address the very dark side of drugs. By their argument there are less people using and abusing alcohol now than during prohibition because it is legal

[Abu3baid]

Straight from Gallup: http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx

Now add cocaine crack and heroine and let me know if that poll changes... I am talking about the "all" drugs legalization stance, and not specific only to pot!

[Grndslmhttr3]

Well.. I'd love to hear more about these so called mental health benefits for sure! Plus if you could cite a few of these many studies it would be great!

There are some studies involving using LSD to treat alcoholism, as well.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0063972

http://jop.sagepub.com/content/26/7/994

http://www.maps.org/research/lsd/Gasser-2014-JMND-4March14.pdf

So you need to be crazy too start with if you are going to use drugs. I agree

That's not what I said.

[Abu3baid]

You are no more surprised than me. Has really floored me the number on here that are for legalizing drugs. Notice none will address the very dark side of drugs. By their argument there are less people using and abusing alcohol now than during prohibition because it is legal

And it is not just pot.. They want cocaine and crack legalized as well.. This thread was basically an off shoot of the Dustin Johnson suspension thread, so I guess if a pro golfer is doing it then it must be good and cool! That is the only explanation I can come up with, as far as I know, there is no such thing as moderate drug use.. Making it available at CVS is stupid... People complain now about how oxi is abused (and this is a prescription drug with actual uses) imagine with cocaine/heroine/crack/acid/extacy and others available without a need for a prescription? Laughable!

[Abu3baid]

There are some studies involving using LSD to treat alcoholism, as well. [URL=http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0063972]http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0063972[/URL] [URL=http://jop.sagepub.com/content/26/7/994]http://jop.sagepub.com/content/26/7/994[/URL] [URL=http://www.maps.org/research/lsd/Gasser-2014-JMND-4March14.pdf]http://www.maps.org/research/lsd/Gasser-2014-JMND-4March14.pdf[/URL]

I'll take a look at that.. But, What are some of the mental health benefits you mentioned though for healthy people?

[Ernest Jones]

This thread was basically an off shoot of the Dustin Johnson suspension thread, so I guess if a pro golfer is doing it then it must be good and cool!

Nobody has said anything like that. Not once. The fact that the pro-prohibition side keeps resorting to ridiculous strawmen, "oh so you think it's ok for someone to do a bunch of crack and then drive a school us?" :doh: speaks volumes about the level of thought you've put into this. It's emotional, knee jerk reactions.

[Abu3baid]

Nobody has said anything like that. Not once. The fact that the pro-prohibition side keeps resorting to ridiculous strawmen, "oh so you think it's ok for someone to do a bunch of crack and then drive a school us?" :doh: speaks volumes about the level of thought you've put into this. It's emotional, knee jerk reactions.

Yeah... I never mentioned a school bus! :doh: I suggest you go back read my arguments I presented and answer them if you want to enter into a discussion other wise, say no to drugs!

[Grndslmhttr3]

I'll take a look at that.. But, What are some of the mental health benefits you mentioned though for healthy people?

A lot of it has to do with decreased anxiety. I don't think that is the primary reason a healthy person is going to take LSD, though.

[jusanothajoe]

Got a news flash for you.

People take/use/abuse drugs to get HIGH ! That is the one and only outcome they are seeking.

I have seen people drink alcohol without getting drunk. So don't give me the alcohol is legal crap.

Although I do not drink myself and would not care if alcohol went away too.

I understand pot has medicinal purposes, that is fine. Get a prescription, and not for an ingrown toenail.

[Grndslmhttr3]

Got a news flash for you.

People take/use/abuse drugs to get HIGH ! That is the one and only outcome they are seeking.

The point I was trying to make is that not all drugs are bad for you.

[Ernest Jones]

Yeah... I never mentioned a school bus! :doh: I suggest you go back read my arguments I presented and answer them if you want to enter into a discussion other wise, say no to drugs!

I didn't say the stupid school bus example came from you, just an example of the Prohibitionists' arguments. I quoted your stupid strawman above.

[Abu3baid]

A lot of it has to do with decreased anxiety. I don't think that is the primary reason a healthy person is going to take LSD, though.

So basically all the studies that you mentioned where conducted and concluded that there are mental health benefits came up with one benefit.. Reduce anxiety? Are you sure these were medically sanctioned studies? At least we agree there is no purpose for a healthy person to take acid!

[jusanothajoe]

The point I was trying to make is that not all drugs are bad for you.

Explain bad ? remember the end result is to get high. They may not be bad for you, most of the time the bad winds up on someone else.

[Mr. Desmond]

Disclaimer: Have not read the thread.

The "War on Drugs" started around '71 by Nixon is a failure. What we've done is incarcerate people and added to our deficit and made profits for private prisons. We haven't attacked the problem -- abuse.

Private prisons want more inmates, so they lobby legislators for stiffer drug sentencing, or at least to maintain it. We have recidivism, and no resolving of the issue. We have more broken, nonproductive lives in our society. We have the greatest incarceration rate.

For what?

Legalize it, collect taxes, educate the public, have self-help programs, encourage assistance, arrest those who abuse the legal drug as we do DWI, etc.

The market will get rid of illegal suppliers to an extent after legalization.

But the war is over. We have lost. Time to change the paradigm.

[Abu3baid]

speaks volumes about the level of thought you've put into this. It's emotional, knee jerk reactions.

Again, I have put plenty of thought into it, if you don't care to go back and read my arguments then don't make ignorant comments like the one above! Thanks

[Abu3baid]

Disclaimer: Have not read the thread. The "War on Drugs" started around '71 by Nixon is a failure. What we've done is incarcerate people and added to our deficit and made profits for private prisons. We haven't attacked the problem -- abuse. Private prisons want more inmates, so they lobby legislators for stiffer drug sentencing, or at least to maintain it. We have recidivism, and no resolving of the issue. We have more broken, nonproductive lives in our society. We have the greatest incarceration rate. For what? Legalize it, collect taxes, educate the public, have self-help programs, encourage assistance, arrest those who abuse the legal drug as we do DWI, etc.  The market will get rid of illegal suppliers to an extent after legalization. But the war is over. We have lost. Time to change the paradigm.

I don't think you can educate people more than what has already been done! I would still rather not have heroin sold at the CVS pharmacy.. Like I mentioned statistics say that oxi is abused and that is legal and controlled via prescription, what will happen when heroine is available (the best and purist kind of course) and all you need is to be 21 to buy it?

[Grndslmhttr3]

So basically all the studies that you mentioned where conducted and concluded that there are mental health benefits came up with one benefit.. Reduce anxiety?

Are you sure these were medically sanctioned studies?

At least we agree there is no purpose for a healthy person to take acid!

They're right there for you to read; I was half-expecting you to actually read them since you asked me to post some. They are peer-reviewed studies that have been published in medical journals. A healthy person has other reasons to take acid, I would guess.

Explain bad ? remember the end result is to get high

For stuff like LSD or mushrooms the toxicity is extremely low, especially compared to other drugs. They're not addictive and have a low potential for abuse. Why is getting high automatically a bad thing?

[jusanothajoe]

I don't think you can educate people more than what has already been done! I would still rather not have heroin sold at the CVS pharmacy.. Like I mentioned statistics say that oxi is abused and that is legal and controlled via prescription, what will happen when heroine is available (the best and purist kind of course) and all you need is to be 21 to buy it?

I would say in my part of the country the # 1 drug being abused is prescription painkillers. So your statement above rings very true.

The war on drugs....................... as long as drugs are illegal, we are winning that war. Anyone that has dreams of a utopian world will never see or understand this.