The Official (Not Official At All) Drugs & Alcohol Thread

[phan52]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Because marijuana does not have the addictive properties that those other drugs possess, nor does it have the physically destructive properties that those other drugs possess, including alcohol.

Originally Posted by Jeremie Boop

I can point you to basically every friend I have who can't quit smoking marijuana so you can keep your "not addicting" statement. Also how them starting smoking marijuana has led to them doing other drugs. Regardless it was a discussion about drug use, regardless of how you want to spin it marijuana is still a drug. Very few discussions bother me as much as those of drug use because it hits way too close to home. I should know better than to participate in these discussions.

I don't know how old you are but I have been on this planet for over 6 decades and I can say unequivocally that pot is a very benign substance, especially compared to alcohol. I know exponentially more people whose lives have been negatively impacted by alcohol than pot. In fact, I know about five people who are unapologetic potheads and, BTW, they all have jobs and stable lives (well, except one guy but he is basically harmless and doesn't bother anybody). As far as the drunks I have known, I can't count them all right off the top of my head because there are so many and their lives are not quite as stable.

Nobody ever said pot was not a drug, but is not in the same category as other illegal drugs. Regardless of what you think, pot is not addictive and the people who use other drugs are going to use them anyway, pot or no pot, so the "gateway drug" thing is specious.

[Jeremie Boop]

Addiction to marijuana is like alcoholism. Marijuana and alcohol aren't chemically addiction but the right personality/risk factors can make it addicting. But that really can't be blamed on the substance itself.

I don't know how old you are but I have been on this planet for over 6 decades and I can say unequivocally that pot is a very benign substance, especially compared to alcohol. I know exponentially more people whose lives have been negatively impacted by alcohol than pot. In fact, I know about five people who are unapologetic potheads and, BTW, they all have jobs and stable lives (well, except one guy but he is basically harmless and doesn't bother anybody). As far as the drunks I have known, I can't count them all right off the top of my head because there are so many and their lives are not quite as stable.

Nobody ever said pot was not a drug, but is not in the same category as other illegal drugs. Regardless of what you think, pot is not addictive and the people who use other drugs are going to use them anyway, pot or no pot, so the "gateway drug" thing is specious.

I really have nothing else to say, we can debate in circles about gateway/not gateway. I really have no care to discuss how benign marijuana is. I'm old enough to have seen many lives ruined by drug use and every instance started with marijuana. It may be anecdotal but that doesn't change the way it's impacted MY life and those I care about. I respectfully bow out of this conversation because, quite simply, it's too personal a subject for me. I apologize if I came off sounding like a dick at all, but when you've seen what I have it's a little hard to stay impartial.

[Spyder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavvySwede

Addiction to marijuana is like alcoholism. Marijuana and alcohol aren't chemically addiction but the right personality/risk factors can make it addicting. But that really can't be blamed on the substance itself.

Wait, did you seriously just compare marijuana addiction to alcoholism? You seriously need to research alcohol if you think it does not have physical dependency associated with it. Long-term alcohol abuse (alcoholism) can lead to severe withdrawal which includes the "shakes and sweats", convulsions, delirium, and possibly death. Pot heads don't have the shakes, sweats, or risk of death from not smoking pot anymore. I seriously encourage you to research physically dependent drugs and what chemical dependence actually is. I don't mean that in a condescending way at all. I think the more people are educated on the topic, the better.

Quote:

For our purposes, the term chemical dependency , refers to a primary illness or disease which is characterized by addiction to a mood-altering chemical. Chemical dependency includes both drug addiction and alcoholism (addiction to the drug alcohol).

[RJH999]

I have had friends that smoked pot and still do.. this will be a good side discussion of is it addictive or not.. Tell me, what is the addictive property in "sex addicts"?  or in "Shopoholics"?  or in I don't know... "shop lifting"? Marijuana is addictive even without those properties that you talk about.. people want and need their THC period!!  They will go to extreme lengths to get that high, and then they will try Coke, X, shrooms, acid.. you name it, they will even sprinkle some crack on their pot to make it more potent! Yes, and it is not just you who knows people either.. By looking at the sheer number of people that use it, I would say that the ones that quit are the exception and not the rule! Oh come on.. come back to the discussion.. those friends are exceptions my friend!! Yup..  same exact experience!

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/19/is-marijuana-addictive-it-depends-how-you-define-addiction/ http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/a/pot_addiction.htm

[phan52]

Addiction to marijuana is like alcoholism. Marijuana and alcohol aren't chemically addiction but the right personality/risk factors can make it addicting. But that really can't be blamed on the substance itself.

I can speak from personal experience. I used to smoke pot at least 3-4 times a week and I quit on the spot when my wife got pregnant. I continued to drink (it's legal, right?), but eventually gave that up as well, but it was really, really hard. Today I know I cannot and will not ever have another drop of alcohol. But I have smoked a joint here and there over the years and did not turn into a raving pothead. It is a very benign substance and should be legal, IMO.

[Golfingdad]

I guess that goes back to @zipazoid comment that each person has their own tolerance to addiction.  Most of the people I knew that smoked pot went on to try other, harder drugs but continued to smoke pot.  I've never tried any (except alcohol), so I cannot speak from personal experience.

I'd agree with this.  It's based on nothing other than personal anecdotal experience though, so take it for what its worth.  I've tried a handful of things and even enjoyed a few of them, but never to the point where I was unable to see how the negatives outweighed the (very temporary) positives.  On that info, I've always assumed I have a "non-addictive personality" ... if such a thing even exits.  I have no idea.

I have had friends that smoked pot and still do.. this will be a good side discussion of is it addictive or not.. Tell me, what is the addictive property in "sex addicts"?  or in "Shopoholics"?  or in I don't know... "shop lifting"?

Apparently, it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%94FosB#Delta_FosB

[Shorty]

I think the point of this whole discussion is that although you can classify something as an "illness" it doesn't follow that those people deserve sympathy.

Certain sex criminals are "sick" or have a "disease", but that doesn't mean you automatically give them sympathy.

Likewise DJ. He made a choice. It's hard to kick the disease, but he chose it.

I reseve my sympathy for the likes of Jarrod Lyle.

[newtogolf]

I'd agree with this.  It's based on nothing other than personal anecdotal experience though, so take it for what its worth.  I've tried a handful of things and even enjoyed a few of them, but never to the point where I was unable to see how the negatives outweighed the (very temporary) positives.  On that info, I've always assumed I have a "non-addictive personality" ... if such a thing even exits.  I have no idea.

Apparently, it's this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%94FosB#Delta_FosB

I think you're pretty addicted to golf and TST?  C'mon, you admitting it is the first step.

[Golfingdad]

I think you're pretty addicted to golf and TST?  C'mon, you admitting it is the first step.

Touche.  I also tell people I am addicted to caffiene but I don't technically know that to be true.  I may just really like coffee and diet soda a lot.

Certain sex criminals are "sick" or have a "disease", but that doesn't mean you automatically give them sympathy.

This is a fair point.  I don't have a counter, either.

[zipazoid]

I think the point of this whole discussion is that although you can classify something as an "illness" it doesn't follow that those people deserve sympathy.

Certain sex criminals are "sick" or have a "disease", but that doesn't mean you automatically give them sympathy.

Likewise DJ. He made a choice. It's hard to kick the disease, but he chose it.

I reseve my sympathy for the likes of Jarrod Lyle.

I still to fail to see where anyone has requested your sympathy. Don't give it. Whatever. Your choice. But that has zero bearing on the facts of addiction. Your sympathy is not required...or even sought.

[Shorty]

I still to fail to see where anyone has requested your sympathy. Don't give it. Whatever. Your choice. But that has zero bearing on the facts of addiction. Your sympathy is not required...or even sought.

I has everything to do with the "facts of addiction". It's about how different people respond. It's a forum.

I'm not going to feel guilted into feeling sorry for a "sick" person who is the cause of their own illness.

There's more to the discussion than whether it (whatever it is) is or isn't an illness or addiction.

We'd have very short threads were that the case.

Let me guess ----- being a man of the world you've battled your demons and aren't judging anyone. You think it could happen to anyone. Right?

I'll bet you're going to say you've done drugs and have been alcoholic and have a different perspective.

[zipazoid]

No, I'm not going to say that.

I'm just baffled by your insistence on letting us know - repeatedly - that you have no sympathy. I'm not even challenging your opinion on that. I'm basically just saying fine, noted.

Quote:

There's more to the discussion than whether it (whatever it is) is or isn't an illness or addiction.

True. Like you telling us you have no sympathy.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: SHORTY HAS NO SYMPATHY FOR ANYONE WHO HAS AN ADDICTION.

Just in case it wasn't already obvious.

[RJH999]

Sympathy is overrated.

[zipazoid]

It's also irrelevant, other than stating to everyone you don't have it. That just needs said once...or so I thought.

Because, you know, it is a message board. And we can read.

[RJH999]

It's also irrelevant, other than stating to everyone you don't have it. That just needs said once...or so I thought.  Because, you know, it is a message board. And we can read.

Yes.

[MS256]

Always eye opening for me to read these threads. I would expect kids to mess around with drugs, maybe become addicted, and have problems as adults. I wouldn't expect many adults that are not addicted to make conscious choices to take drugs, or even to smoke a joint. Especially once those adults take on the responsibility of parenthood. Not common, in my little corner of the world, to set that example for their kids. My kids may do something wrong but they will never have the excuse that "Daddy did it too." Sympathy? I have sympathy for anybody that is going down the wrong road (whatever that road may be) and I always hope they turn it around and have a better life.

[RJH999]

Always eye opening for me to read these threads. I would expect kids to mess around with drugs, maybe become addicted, and have problems as adults. I wouldn't expect many adults that are not addicted to make conscious choices to take drugs, or even to smoke a joint. Especially once those adults take on the responsibility of parenthood. Not common, in my little corner of the world, to set that example for their kids. My kids may do something wrong but they will never have the excuse that "Daddy did it too." Sympathy? I have sympathy for anybody that is going down the wrong road (whatever that road may be) and I always hope they turn it around and have a better life.

Even to smoke a joint? I think that is a little extreme. Being a stoner is obviously a bigger deal but having the occasional joint with buddies, I see no problem with it.

[MS256]

That is the difference in culture I'm referring to. Not a chance in the world I am going to smoke a joint and if I found out that any of my adult friends did I would be completely shocked.