Effortless Inside Swing with Closed Stance

[Joe Mama]

I use a strong grip, with three knuckles of the left hand visible, my left thumb at the top right side of the shaft, 90% covered by my right heel pad. I tend to mis-hit my short irons with the standard open stance (left foot back one inch, flared left five degrees, right foot square) unless I take the club back inside and swing down along the 4:00-10:00 direction (instead of along 3:00-9:00). Too often, however, I take it back too far inside, or not enough. Looking for a simpler way to make the inside-outside-inside swing--one that requires less thinking, I started taking the same stance, but with my body closed about 30 degrees relative to the target line. The club face is square to the target line, which is now my 8:00 direction because of my one-hour twist clockwise. The ball is right if center. If I make a natural swing straight back toward my 3:00, and then through toward my 9:00, making sure going back to keep the face square to the target line (facing my 8:00) for as long as possible, I make consistently great strikes with less thought, and with fewer errors. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

[Ernest Jones]

Just a thought, but with a slightly less extreme grip position you may be able to have a closer to neutral stance. If it works it works, but I would think that a 3 knuckle grip and a 30* closed stance would "feel" crowded to me.

In any case, hard to provide useful feedback without video.

[billchao]

@Joe Mama , post a swing video. There may be more going on than you think. I used to stand with a slightly closed stance to fight a slice. Now that I draw the ball consistently, I fight that same tendency to stand closed to my target because it now creates big pushes and hooks.

30° closed seems excessive. You'd have to have a pretty extreme OTT move for that to straighten out your shot.

[Phil McGleno]

Sounds like you come way over the top-Instead of just having a better swing you are cheating it by hitting major pulls. Edit: Bill beat me to it.

[Joe Mama]

@Joe Mama , post a swing video. There may be more going on than you think. I used to stand with a slightly closed stance to fight a slice. Now that I draw the ball consistently, I fight that same tendency to stand closed to my target because it now creates big pushes and hooks. 30° closed seems excessive. You'd have to have a pretty extreme OTT move for that to straighten out your shot.

[quote name="Phil McGleno" url="/t/78402/effortless-inside-swing-with-closed-stance#post_1080583"]Sounds like you come way over the top-Instead of just having a better swing you are cheating it by hitting major pulls. Edit: Bill beat me to it.[/quote] I have struggled with OTT for all of the (three +) years I've been playing. Based on the hundreds of posts on this and other forums, I would guess that 90% of high-cappers have varying degrees of OTT problems. If it were easy to fix, we'd never mention it. Rather than fighting what--for most--is evidently an un-winnable war, I've chosen an easier way out. It works for me better than any of the hundreds of trials and error compensating swings I've tried. Maybe it will work for other hackers like me--golfers who cannot for different reasons do it the "right" way. I cannot imagine, however that any pro or semi-pro or other low handicappers would benefit from such a swing.

[Ernest Jones]

I have struggled with OTT for all of the (three +) years I've been playing. Based on the hundreds of posts on this and other forums, I would guess that 90% of high-cappers have varying degrees of OTT problems. If it were easy to fix, we'd never mention it. Rather than fighting what--for most--is evidently an un-winnable war, I've chosen an easier way out.

It works for me better than any of the hundreds of trials and error compensating swings I've tried. Maybe it will work for other hackers like me--golfers who cannot for different reasons do it the "right" way. I cannot imagine, however that any pro or semi-pro or other low handicappers would benefit from such a swing.

Uhhh...so...are you looking for discussion or validation?

[Joe Mama]

Just a thought, but with a slightly less extreme grip position you may be able to have a closer to neutral stance. If it works it works, but I would think that a 3 knuckle grip and a 30* closed stance would "feel" crowded to me.  In any case, hard to provide useful feedback without video.

It would be very crowded indeed with the ball in the standard position at center or left of center stance. I place the ball way to the right of center, near the right foot. It not easy for me to make a suitable video, but that's not a problem for me because I'm not looking for help with my swing. I offered an account of my experiences just in case others might try the closed stance swing like mine and perhaps improve their playing.

[billchao]

I have struggled with OTT for all of the (three +) years I've been playing. Based on the hundreds of posts on this and other forums, I would guess that 90% of high-cappers have varying degrees of OTT problems. If it were easy to fix, we'd never mention it. Rather than fighting what--for most--is evidently an un-winnable war, I've chosen an easier way out.

It works for me better than any of the hundreds of trials and error compensating swings I've tried. Maybe it will work for other hackers like me--golfers who cannot for different reasons do it the "right" way. I cannot imagine, however that any pro or semi-pro or other low handicappers would benefit from such a swing.

I disagree that it's an "un-winnable war." I got rid of my OTT move this year. All it takes is the right kind of practice and prioritizing the proper piece in your swing. If you tried hundreds of swings in your short golfing tenure, you're not doing either of those two things.

You're a 17? I wouldn't call that swing "working" for you, sorry.

[Ernest Jones]

It would be very crowded indeed with the ball in the standard position at center or left of center stance. I place the ball way to the right of center, near the right foot

That actually sounds WAY more crowded. I may be misunderstanding though, can you post a video?

[iacas]

It would be very crowded indeed with the ball in the standard position at center or left of center stance. I place the ball way to the right of center, near the right foot

So… you're playing with a 30° closed stance, pulling the snot out of the ball, and have it by your right foot?

Golf requires some height to play well. You're just compensating. It may "work" but you won't get better.

[Ernest Jones]

So… you're playing with a 30° closed stance, pulling the snot out of the ball, and have it by your right foot?

Golf requires some height to play well. You're just compensating. It may "work" but you won't get better.

With that set-up I'd be afraid to smash the hell out of my left knee with the ball and/or club. As I said though, I may be visualizing this all wrong. This thread needs video or it's going nowhere.

[Joe Mama]

Uhhh...so...are you looking for discussion or validation?

I asked if anyone else had experienced the same kind of success as I've had in the hope that the support of others might encourage others to try out the closed stance swing. Maybe it will work for them, too. I wasn't looking for a critique of my swing at this point. Maybe later.

[Phil McGleno]

I dont think most golfers count giving up and giving in like you have done as 'success'-Are you done improving? Giving up?-So you are here for validation rather than help/discussion?

On 11/30/2014 at 3:47 PM, Joe Mama said:

I asked if anyone else had experienced the same kind of success as I've had in the hope that the support of others might encourage others to try out the closed stance swing. Maybe it will work for them, too. I wasn't looking for a critique of my swing at this point. Maybe later.

[Abu3baid]

If this swing works for you then great! If you are happy with your level then there really shouldn't be anything that any one says to dissuade you from doing what you are doing. Someone could correct me but I think I heard of a pga player that basically played pulls, I know my boss stands closed to the target as well and plays pulls (he averages around 83 on a tough course)! Are you happy with your scoring?

[Joe Mama]

It may "work" but you won't get better.

I now hit the ball better than I used to, so I consider myself better than I was, though I am sad to hear I won't get any better. [quote name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/78402/effortless-inside-swing-with-closed-stance#post_1080617"]With that set-up I'd be afraid to smash the hell out of my left knee with the ball and/or club. As I said though, I may be visualizing this all wrong. [/quote] You WOULD hit your left knee if you start your downswing toward the target line (toward your body's 8:00 o'clock). My swing is from 3:00 to 9:00. [quote name="Phil McGleno" url="/t/78402/effortless-inside-swing-with-closed-stance#post_1080623"]I dont think most golfers count giving up and giving in like you have done as 'success'-Are you done improving? Giving up?-So you are here for validation rather than help/discussion? [/quote] I constantly strive to improve. As I said before, I am here to share my experiences. There may be others who have had a similar experience and will say so in this forum, which could encourage others who have struggled for years with OTT to try the stance, and maybe become better than they were. That would be a good thing, in my opinion. [quote name="Abu3baid" url="/t/78402/effortless-inside-swing-with-closed-stance#post_1080628"]If this swing works for you then great! If you are happy with your level then there really shouldn't be anything that any one says to dissuade you from doing what you are doing. Someone could correct me but I think I heard of a pga player that basically played pulls, I know my boss stands closed to the target as well and plays pulls (he averages around 83 on a tough course)! Are you happy with your scoring?[/quote] I shoot lower scores than others my age (70 years) who've been playing only as long as I have (three years), so I'm happy about that. But, I want to get better; I don't want to stay at the same level, so I practice every day, but even if I never improve further, I will still continue immensely to enjoy what I believe is the best game ever played.

[Abu3baid]

Well I'm glad to hear you are enjoying the game at 70 years old.. I can only hope the same for my self 35 years from now..

[Joe Mama]

I disagree that it's an "un-winnable war." I got rid of my OTT move this year. All it takes is the right kind of practice and prioritizing the proper piece in your swing. If you tried hundreds of swings in your short golfing tenure, you're not doing either of those two things. You're a 17? I wouldn't call that swing "working" for you, sorry.

Congratulations on defeating your OTT. Maybe your success, in contrast to my failure, is not due to your greater perseverance, but to your comparative youth and or greater flexibility. Did you cure your OTT only after fifteen years of play, or was it after two years of playing? Are you in your seventies, too? As for my 17 handicap being an indication that my recent change (made last week) isn't working for me, please allow me to update my handicap after several more months go by. I only play 18 two or three times a month, so it will take awhile to see results that might impress you. But, at my age, it's possible other parts of my game could deteriorate in that time. Maybe by June my handicap will be 25. That won't mean, however, that other parts of my game are not "working" for me.

[iacas]

So… you're playing with a 30° closed stance, pulling the snot out of the ball, and have it by your right foot?

Golf requires some height to play well. You're just compensating. It may "work" but you won't get better.

@Joe Mama , I'm going to stand by this. If you're pulling the ball 30° and playing the ball off your back foot, you're really compensating heavily. It sounds like someone who has thrown in the towel on actually improving.

Good luck.