Realistic expectations with a driver?

[ryunin]

So what would be an average swing speed of a middle aged 15 handicapper?  At the driving range where I practice an average guy with a driver reachers 264 carry or more. I thought that was pretty normal with guys who have been playing golf for a few years regularly. Actually, I have never seen anyone driven as short as myself with the driver, except complete beginners. Everyone at the range shoots comfortable over 250 yards, so I thought 100 mph is still a bit too slow for such "normal distances". But what may be misleading, Czech people are a bit strange / once they take up skiing or golf they do it extremely seriously. So they play very well and if you don't play well or don't take it seriously, they think you are not a real golfer. I think in the US golf is more about lots of people playing easy, take it easy, having fun, whereas here people take it more seriously. When I was at high school if you didn't play soccer well or wasn't good at skiing you were considered weird or just mad, really. Ivan Lendl, a typical Czech guy, nuts in the US, normal here.

[cipher]

So what would be an average swing speed of a middle aged 15 handicapper?  At the driving range where I practice an average guy with a driver reachers 264 carry or more. I thought that was pretty normal with guys who have been playing golf for a few years regularly. Actually, I have never seen anyone driven as short as myself with the driver, except complete beginners. Everyone at the range shoots comfortable over 250 yards, so I thought 100 mph is still a bit too slow for such "normal distances". But what may be misleading, Czech people are a bit strange / once they take up skiing or golf they do it extremely seriously. So they play very well and if you don't play well or don't take it seriously, they think you are not a real golfer. I think in the US golf is more about lots of people playing easy, take it easy, having fun, whereas here people take it more seriously. When I was at high school if you didn't play soccer well or wasn't good at skiing you were considered weird or just mad, really. Ivan Lendl, a typical Czech guy, nuts in the US, normal here.

That is not even close to normal.  I can't carry the ball more than 230-245.  The average total distance drive of a golfer is roughly around 208 yards .

[scorpion12]

Yes, Cipher has it right. The average golfer drives their ball just over or around 200 yards. The golfers that drive their ball 275-300 yards are few and far between. I'm NOT saying that they aren't out there because they are but most golfers that think they drive their ball 280 yards aren't measuring their drives and could be mistaking 220 yards for 280.

I know my drives go between 180-220 yards. I've walked the distance off using my smart phone and a GPS. I'd love to be able to drive the ball 250 yards but I just can't. When I try to speed up my swing, I lose control of the ball and it slices badly. I know that I've got a few more yards in my swing if I was able to get my hips and legs involved more... then I might reach 230-240. That would be awesome but as soon as I think of trying to get a proper hip turn and sequencing it to start my downswing, I shift my weight and wind up hitting my club on the ground several inches behind my ball. One day I'll get proper instruction on getting this down but for right now, I've accommodated my swing to mostly eliminate my slice but my accuracy is down as well... if it isn't one thing it's another.

There are a lot of serious golfers here in the US. There are also a lot of duffers and hackers playing at golf chasing their distance dreams with equipment instead of focusing on the fundamentals and good instruction.

I wanted to mention that, if you're thinking there's too much tension in your arms during your swing, I saw a tip on youtube that helps me eliminate it and get a little more smoothness in my swing (when I remember to do it that is...)

Take your normal stance and address your ball. Grip your club but just prior to starting your backswing, hold your club in front of you about waist high with the shaft parallel to the ground. Extend your arms straight in front of you and, using your wrists, swing your club back and forth ( to the left and right)... this should help eliminate any tension you've got in your forearms and help you swing your club a bit more smooth and fluid... it works for me when I remember to do it prior to swinging my club.

[billchao]

Yes, Cipher has it right. The average golfer drives their ball just over or around 200 yards. The golfers that drive their ball 275-300 yards are few and far between. I'm NOT saying that they aren't out there because they are but most golfers that think they drive their ball 280 yards aren't measuring their drives and could be mistaking 220 yards for 280.

A lot of people "measure" their driving distance by the yardage they have left to the pin, which is a terrible way to do it for numerous reasons.

[trickyputt]

[QUOTE name="cipher" url="/t/79368/realistic-expectations-with-a-driver/18#post_1096837"] So you are saying without a ball there you can swing 100mph? You have verified this? Call me a skeptic on that one when you say you swing 70mph when it is there. I highly doubt your problem is as much mental as it is technical. Do yourself a favor and get that out of your mind. Improve your swing, improve your distance and accuracy.[/QUOTE] I didn't want to brag or anything. I just know when I swing at my normal swing, the TrackMan or whatever it was recorded 75 mph or so. When I practice without a ball and decide to swing faster, I can hear and feel I swing much, much faster, but maybe you'r right, it may be just 10 mph difference.

I was at a professional baseball game where a booth was set up to fish through the crowd for unknown pitchers. It was a radar gun aimed to report the speed you threw the baseball on a screen much like the roadside signs that flash your speed at you when you are in a speed zone. It was both interesting and golf related to me when I realized that so many people were throwing 65-75 and not using their turn or hips properly, but the ones that could were achieving higher speed pitches more like 80-89. I never saw any 90s, but then they would be on the field I guess.

[ryunin]

Yes, Cipher has it right. The average golfer drives their ball just over or around 200 yards. The golfers that drive their ball 275-300 yards are few and far between. I'm NOT saying that they aren't out there because they are but most golfers that think they drive their ball 280 yards aren't measuring their drives and could be mistaking 220 yards for 280.

I know my drives go between 180-220 yards. I've walked the distance off using my smart phone and a GPS. I'd love to be able to drive the ball 250 yards but I just can't. When I try to speed up my swing, I lose control of the ball and it slices badly. I know that I've got a few more yards in my swing if I was able to get my hips and legs involved more... then I might reach 230-240. That would be awesome but as soon as I think of trying to get a proper hip turn and sequencing it to start my downswing, I shift my weight and wind up hitting my club on the ground several inches behind my ball. One day I'll get proper instruction on getting this down but for right now, I've accommodated my swing to mostly eliminate my slice but my accuracy is down as well... if it isn't one thing it's another.

There are a lot of serious golfers here in the US. There are also a lot of duffers and hackers playing at golf chasing their distance dreams with equipment instead of focusing on the fundamentals and good instruction.

I wanted to mention that, if you're thinking there's too much tension in your arms during your swing, I saw a tip on youtube that helps me eliminate it and get a little more smoothness in my swing (when I remember to do it that is...)

Take your normal stance and address your ball. Grip your club but just prior to starting your backswing, hold your club in front of you about waist high with the shaft parallel to the ground. Extend your arms straight in front of you and, using your wrists, swing your club back and forth ( to the left and right)... this should help eliminate any tension you've got in your forearms and help you swing your club a bit more smooth and fluid... it works for me when I remember to do it prior to swinging my club.

Thank you for this tip. I'll try that.

[DrvFrShow]

Here's something I learned. Now I'm not a great driver hitter, but when it all comes together the ball flies. I can do it with my 3W no problem. A lot of people I see have these fast SS with their drivers, and I'm one of them, yet we only hit the ball about 200 yds. It's our angle of attack but what is causing it?

I think it's because we're engaging our right arm too soon at the top of our swing before we start our hip turn. This makes our downswing like pulling a slack rope. It throws us off balance and we come in too steeply on the the ball or hit behind the ball and lose distance because of it. If we start with a hip turn and pull with our left side, the right arm will take care of itself, and we'll come in at the proper angle and the ball will fly. You can feel it with your left arm against your pectoral muscle when you start your turn. We engage the right arm at impact. Then follow through and extend toward the target.

Still this club is difficult to hit. I'll see what my pro says on Thursday at my lesson.

[CR McDivot]

Here's something I learned. Now I'm not a great driver hitter, but when it all comes together the ball flies. I can do it with my 3W no problem. A lot of people I see have these fast SS with their drivers, and I'm one of them, yet we only hit the ball about 200 yds. It's our angle of attack but what is causing it?

I think it's because we're engaging our right arm too soon at the top of our swing before we start our hip turn. This makes our downswing like pulling a slack rope. It throws us off balance and we come in too steeply on the the ball or hit behind the ball and lose distance because of it. If we start with a hip turn and pull with our left side, the right arm will take care of itself, and we'll come in at the proper angle and the ball will fly. You can feel it with your left arm against your pectoral muscle when you start your turn. We engage the right arm at impact. Then follow through and extend toward the target.

Still this club is difficult to hit. I'll see what my pro says on Thursday at my lesson.

I grew up with laminated maple, low tees and the wound ball off the left heel. 230 and straight. Lost quite a bit of distance lately (and considerable accuracy) mainly I believe because of age and thus lower SS and overcompensation by moving the ball too far forward (off left toe) and teeing too high. Produced out to in, two way miss, and a 210 yrd average carry.

Last trip to the range I moderated tee height to half a ball at crown, ball position to mid point of left heel and toe, assuring setup matched target focus,  path running slightly out, full release beyond low point. Seemed to work to correct AOA and a square face. Gained distance and accuracy.

Hope this is on the right course, sure would help to get an extra 15 or 20 yards back in the fairway!

[CR McDivot]

BTW (in consideration of previous posts) - although it is true that the average golfers drive is around 200 yrd carry, I can attest to personally seeing a lot of young folks, and quite a few in the 30 to 45 year old group push towards 300 yrds. They can indeed get it out there!

Accuracy usually (but not always) stinks.

[ryunin]

I have asked a Czech friend of mine, a good golfer  and he confirmed what you guys are saying about the distance. There are long hitters but the average, he says, is also about 210 yards or so. That means I am not so far from the average. The hot guns who I often see at the driving range are probably just a few guys who nejoy showing off their distance and the guys who are average, for some reason, don't practice with the driver or go somewhere else. Next time I see a teacher I will ask about the distance to the back fence and why it seems everybody but me can reach that fence with their driver. Plus when a guy comes up with an iron, they also reach the fence, I just cannot believe my eyes. I hardly reach 130 yards with my 7 iron and whenever someone pulls out an iron, they just rocket the ball to that back fence, like it's a driver. Even if they slice it, they'll reach 260 yards with the iron. I hope at least they're using a four or three iron. Otherwise I don't know what's going on.

[Osmond]

I have asked a Czech friend of mine, a good golfer  and he confirmed what you guys are saying about the distance. There are long hitters but the average, he says, is also about 210 yards or so. That means I am not so far from the average. The hot guns who I often see at the driving range are probably just a few guys who nejoy showing off their distance and the guys who are average, for some reason, don't practice with the driver or go somewhere else. Next time I see a teacher I will ask about the distance to the back fence and why it seems everybody but me can reach that fence with their driver. Plus when a guy comes up with an iron, they also reach the fence, I just cannot believe my eyes. I hardly reach 130 yards with my 7 iron and whenever someone pulls out an iron, they just rocket the ball to that back fence, like it's a driver. Even if they slice it, they'll reach 260 yards with the iron. I hope at least they're using a four or three iron. Otherwise I don't know what's going on.

I'm sure you'll find - IF someone is hitting a range ball to 260y with an iron - it's a driving / utility iron that is closer to a hybrid. Even on the pro tour, there aren't many who'd do that, so I'm a bit sceptical. When it comes to distance of the tee, I find it funny when people question the existance of longer hitters. I played in a scramble competition last year with a 20hcp who was absolutely hopeless at golf - apart from the fact that he hit a few BOMBS of the tee. He won the longest drive competition with a drive of 313 meters, that's 342 yards. Not downwind, but a bit downhill on a reasonably wet course. Most drives he'd push slice to about 200 to 250 yards. The average golfer probably hits it around 200 yards, but there's a lot of senior citizens (the vast majority?) playing golf. Take ages 15 to 30 and handicaps better than 15 and I'd be very surprised if the average is less than 240 or 250y. I very seldom see a younger golfer being a genuinely short hitter.

[ryunin]

The reason I see so many long hitter at the range is probably, as we discussed this with a friend golfer, that a typical golfer who doesn't hit very far, doesn't practice on the driving range, at least in our country. They just play at a golf course and don't practice much. The guys who come to practice at the range are usually keen, enthusiastic golfers who enjoy driving long with everything. Plus the fence is probably not 270 yards, but 250 yards and maybe my eyes just cannot see where the ball lands with their irons, maybe it lands shortly before the fence.

[pabird]

All the comments have value but for me the best for focussed help has been on. concentrated relaxing of hand elbows and shoulders

[trickyputt]

All the comments have value but for me the best for focussed help has been on. concentrated relaxing of hand elbows and shoulders

I have an interest in the differences between what I feel is my "natural" position with my hands, wrists, elbows and shoulders versus the position I shoukd be in given the particular loft,lie and length of club I am striking. A good topic for another thread, would you start it?

[vangator]

One thing that slows down a golf swing is getting the grip too much in the palm of your hand. MVMAC has a good video here dealing with the grip. Get some lag in your swing. If you wanted to drive a spike with a sledge hammer into the base of a tree, how would you swing the hammer? Would your arms be straight throughout the swing or would you kind of whip it at the spike? Would your head be moving around or be concentrating on the spike? Would you flail at it or make a nice steady swing and put a little a$$ into it just before striking the spike? You would stay behind the swing to "drive" the hammer into the spike. Hopefully this will help you visualize the swing. I've been working on holding my lag and releasing with my right hand/wrist (I'm right handed). My right hand has always been kind of along for the ride. There's too much power in your right hand to waste it. The extra distance I'm getting is pretty good. I hit a couple in the 300+ range last week. I've gained a club length with my irons and my fairway woods have increased an extra 15-20. A few more weeks will tell if I'm hitting the ball better.