Hypothetical Question Regarding Rule 8-2 (Indicating Line Of Play)

[Golfingdad]

So, you're on the putting green and you have a 12' putt that you believe is going to break right-to-left about 10".  Your fellow competitor is directly in your line about 5 feet in front of you and you need him/her to move their mark out of your line.

It dawns on you that if they move it to the right, their mark is going to give you a nice intermediate aiming point.

Are you allowed to ask them to move it to the right after realizing that it would indicate your line of play?  Or must you now have them move it somewhere else, such that it's not on your line of play?

[Club Rat]

Perfectly legal.

[Fourputt]

So, you're on the putting green and you have a 12' putt that you believe is going to break right-to-left about 10".  Your fellow competitor is directly in your line about 5 feet in front of you and you need him/her to move their mark out of your line.

It dawns on you that if they move it to the right, their mark is going to give you a nice intermediate aiming point.

Are you allowed to ask them to move it to the right after realizing that it would indicate your line of play?  Or must you now have them move it somewhere else, such that it's not on your line of play?

I think that you leave it up to them without telling them that it helps, or you ask them to move it the other way if you are truly an honorable player.  To ask them to put it where it assists you would be a breach in the same way that asking them to leave a ball were it might assist you.  Asking him to place his marker in such a location would be no different from asking him to place any object to help you with aiming a shot.

[iacas]

As I said in the chat, no, and any smart player is going to realize that they should move it to the left. Additionally, if they leave their mark where it is you could easily look to aim a few inches right of it legally still assisting you in aiming.

[Golfingdad]

I think that you leave it up to them without telling them that it helps, or you ask them to move it the other way if you are truly an honorable player.  To ask them to put it where it assists you would be a breach in the same way that asking them to leave a ball were it might assist you.  Asking him to place his marker in such a location would be no different from asking him to place any object to help you with aiming a shot.

I thought as much.  Just wasn't totally sure.  Thanks.

I also recognize that threads like this can be silly, because now what?

Actually, I know.  Let's talk about this:

Asking him to place his marker in such a location would be no different from asking him to place any object to help you with aiming a shot.

The guys on tour leave balls on the green in situations where it will help the other players all the time.  I realize they know not to ask for it, and yet it's done all the time, so is this just a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" unspoken rule amongst all of the players?  If your ball is near but beyond the hole, don't mark it so it can't hurt but only help the other guys chip knowing that he'll do the same when you need it?

[iacas]

Actually, I know.  Let's talk about this:

Let's not. :-) Start a new thread on that one.

[Club Rat]

Rule 8-2 (Indicating Line Of Play)

This rule covers "advice" during a round of play.

Really doesn't cover an opponents mark as you described?

8-2 . Indicating Line of Play

a . Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green , a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

Exception: Flagstick attended or held up – see Rule 17-1 .

b . On the Putting Green

When the player’s ball is on the putting green , the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke , point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

I think the rule may be covered elsewhere.

But, I still think it's permissible.

[billchao]

I think that you leave it up to them without telling them that it helps, or you ask them to move it the other way if you are truly an honorable player.

I'd do the first and get a chance that they'll mark it where it will benefit me. Call it gamesmanship. ;-)

[iacas]

8-2. Indicating Line of Play

b. On the Putting Green

When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

I think the rule may be covered elsewhere.

But, I still think it's permissible.

I'm not sure how you quote that rule and then say "I think it's permissible."

Now, nobody would really "catch" you because you could always play dumb and say "I'm going to putt it to the left over here" and then say "Oh, I pushed that one!," but golf expects far more honesty than that, and doing that makes you (general "you") a sleazebag.

[Fourputt]

Rule 8-2 (Indicating Line Of Play)

This rule covers "advice" during a round of play.

Really doesn't cover an opponents mark as you described?

8-2. Indicating Line of Play

a. Other Than on Putting Green

Except on the putting green, a player may have the line of play indicated to him by anyone, but no one may be positioned by the player on or close to the line or an extension of the line beyond the hole while the stroke is being made. Any mark placed by the player or with his knowledge to indicate the line must be removed before the stroke is made.

Exception: Flagstick attended or held up – see Rule 17-1.

b. On the Putting Green

When the player’s ball is on the putting green, the player, his partner or either of their caddies may, before but not during the stroke, point out a line for putting, but in so doing the putting green must not be touched. A mark must not be placed anywhere to indicate a line for putting.

I think the rule may be covered elsewhere.

But, I still think it's permissible.

What did you miss there?  See what I put in bold, italics, and underlined.

[Club Rat]

The rule is about indicating line of play.

Rule 8

Advice; Indicating Line of Play

They rule covers asking advise, etc.

The way I'm reading it, would be in a situation when a players caddie would place a mark if his player was off the green, chipping, etc.

Maybe I'm wrong!

Wouldn't be the first time and probably won't be the last.

[Club Rat]

OK, I'm a bit confused.

@Fourputt Your fellow competitor is directly in your line about 5 feet in front of you and you need him/her to move their mark out of your line.

Now I realize you are also referring to their mark is going to give you a nice intermediate aiming point.

I'm old and slow.

[Dormie1360]

Had to think about this one.  Don't know if I have a clear answer.

Couple of subtle points.  R8-2b specifically deals with strokes made on the putting green, and R8-2b is concerned with "the line for putting", not the" line of play".  Although every stroke has a line for play, there is a difference between the two. Not that it really makes a difference in your question, but hey, I'm pedant.

Secondly, the breach of this rule must be intent based.

Also, this is not advice that we are talking about. It is a specific rule which deals with indicating "aiming points" while playing golf.

If your motives are "pure", and it happens to help you out great.  However, I personally wouldn't request a mark moved a specific direction if my sole intent asking for that direction was to have my line for putt indicated.  I feel I would be breaching the rule, not that it could be easily proven.

Can't say it would be an issue with me anyway, as my putting is not accurate enough to be aiming at little ball marks 5 feet away.