Lateral Water Hazard

[Motown88]

I'm fairly certain I understand the rule well enough to answer this myself, but just to get an outside opinion on it let me paint a picture of the dilemma.

My home course has a 220 yard Par 3, stream that runs about 50 yards short of the green and then up the left side.  The left side is heavily sloped towards the stream, any miss left will end up in the stream.  Question is, if a ball lands in the hazard what are your options?

The only two options I see here are playing out of the hazard, which is nearly impossible on this hole, or reteeing and playing your third from the tee box.  The hazard extends 10 yards to the left of the stream followed by a boundry fence.

I was playing with a member of the course earlier that claims he could drop within 2 club lenghts of where his ball went into the hazard, which typically you can do with a lateral water hazard, except that no matter where he drops it's closer to the hole.  He claims if he took a step back between where his ball is in the hazard and the pin (towards the tee box) it was a legal drop.  Maybe I'm over thinking this and have been costing myself strokes for a while but I feel any drop is closer to the hole.

Thanks in advance

[Dormie1360]

Always kind of tough for me to answer these types of questions with out a diagram but:

Where the ball lay in the hazard is irrelevant.  Determine the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard.  Can you drop within two club lengths of that point and not strike the ground either closer to the hole than this reference point or in the hazard.  With a lateral, parallel to the side of the green there may be a small sliver of ground that complies.

If the reference point is exactly abeam the pin, it may impossible to accomplish this depending on the hazard line.

Remember the ball only needs to strike the ground in the correct area.  If it rolls closer, or in the hazard, after two drops you may place the ball.

If I understand correctly, the opposite hazard boundary coincides with OOB, so that side is not an option.

A way I use to visualize this is imagine a string tied to the pin and pulled tight with the other end over the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard.  Now walk two club lengths holding the string tight.  Is there an area between the end of the string and the hazard line?  If so, you have an area to drop which is not closer to the hole.

[Motown88]

Rought idea of what the hole looks like.

Point A is commonly where I enter the hazard, and the point I'm referencing in my OP.

Point B is a common miss I've seen as well, short of the green and still in the hazard.

Assuming you enter the hazard on that line (entering straight on is a lot easier to determine where to drop), what are your options?

[Golfingdad]

Rought idea of what the hole looks like.

Point A is commonly where I enter the hazard, and the point I'm referencing in my OP.

Point B is a common miss I've seen as well, short of the green and still in the hazard.

Assuming you enter the hazard on that line (entering straight on is a lot easier to determine where to drop), what are your options?

With the hole where you show it, you could drop within 2 club lengths "north" of point A and not be nearer the hole and within 2 club lengths "south" (towards the tee) of point B and not be nearer the hole.

[dkolo]

Is this actually a lateral hazard? If I didn't have any knowledge about what stakes were marking it, I'd have called this a regular water hazard. The rule of thumb I always went off of was if you have to play over the water, it's generally not a lateral.

[Golfingdad]

Is this actually a lateral hazard? If I didn't have any knowledge about what stakes were marking it, I'd have called this a regular water hazard. The rule of thumb I always went off of was if you have to play over the water, it's generally not a lateral.

It could be both.  The middle section they have to play over could be yellow, but the vertical parts kind of have to be red, I would think.

[Motown88]

Is this actually a lateral hazard? If I didn't have any knowledge about what stakes were marking it, I'd have called this a regular water hazard. The rule of thumb I always went off of was if you have to play over the water, it's generally not a lateral.

Personally I feel the stream in front should be a water hazard (yellow stake), but in fact the entire stream is marked red.  Makes no sense to me but it is what it is.  Although I suppose if you shanked one short in the water you would just take a normal drop behind the hazard as if it were a straight water hazard so it makes no difference.

The picture is poorly done, my MS Paint skills aren't what they used to be!  The stream in front spans all of 20 yards, probably less than that.

[dkolo]

It could be both.  The middle section they have to play over could be yellow, but the vertical parts kind of have to be red, I would think.

I hadn't seen the same body of water change hazard type midhole before. Learn something new every day.

[natureboy]

Always kind of tough for me to answer these types of questions with out a diagram but:

Where the ball lay in the hazard is irrelevant.  Determine the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard.  Can you drop within two club lengths of that point and not strike the ground either closer to the hole than this reference point or in the hazard.  With a lateral, parallel to the side of the green there may be a small sliver of ground that complies.

If the reference point is exactly abeam the pin, it may impossible to accomplish this depending on the hazard line.

Remember the ball only needs to strike the ground in the correct area.  If it rolls closer, or in the hazard, after two drops you may place the ball.

If I understand correctly, the opposite hazard boundary coincides with OOB, so that side is not an option.

A way I use to visualize this is imagine a string tied to the pin and pulled tight with the other end over the point where the ball last crossed the margin of the hazard.  Now walk two club lengths holding the string tight.  Is there an area between the end of the string and the hazard line?  If so, you have an area to drop which is not closer to the hole.

Is the chart at bottom along the lines of what you describe with the string? Good way to visualize it.

Rought idea of what the hole looks like.

Point A is commonly where I enter the hazard, and the point I'm referencing in my OP.

Point B is a common miss I've seen as well, short of the green and still in the hazard.

Assuming you enter the hazard on that line (entering straight on is a lot easier to determine where to drop), what are your options?

You show the hazard as all water, but is there a  staked hazard line? It may matter per the graphic below.

With the hole where you show it, you could drop within 2 club lengths "north" of point A and not be nearer the hole and within 2 club lengths "south" (towards the tee) of point B and not be nearer the hole.

As shown (probably not accurate - but good for discussion) both north and sought of point A might be a problem if the hazard boundary is curved similarly to the arc you would be on using the 'string from the pin' approach. One would be trying to drop along the inner arc within two club lengths, which looks like it could be tricky, because of the apparent curve in the hazard margin. If as more likely there was a staked hazard boundary, then you would probably get your drop zones north and south of the tangent point.

[Golfingdad]

I hadn't seen the same body of water change hazard type midhole before. Learn something new every day.

Yeah, I learned this just like a year or so ago when I saw it on a course I was playing.  I was like "Whaaaa???" then came here and learned it wasn't all that uncommon.

[Fourputt]

Is this actually a lateral hazard? If I didn't have any knowledge about what stakes were marking it, I'd have called this a regular water hazard. The rule of thumb I always went off of was if you have to play over the water, it's generally not a lateral.

The same water hazard can be marked in yellow where it crosses in front, then changed to red where it parallels the hole.

I've seen this often on my old home course.  There is an irrigation ditch that meanders through the course, and it changes designation a half dozen times along the way.  There is one par 3 hole where it's only yellow, then a par 4 and a par 5 where it changes from red to yellow as it crosses the fairway in front of the green on both of those holes, then back to red on the other side of the fairway.  For the rest of the holes where it comes into play, it's a lateral all the way.

[Dormie1360]

Originally Posted by natureboy

Is the chart at bottom along the lines of what you describe with the string? Good way to visualize it..

That's it!

[Motown88]

Interesting, I never thought of it this way.  I guess I have been playing this hole wrong for a while, although I've been technically right by re-teeing.  Dropping on this hole will likely result in placing the ball which makes the drop that much better.  Thanks for the answers everyone.

[Golfingdad]

Interesting, I never thought of it this way.  I guess I have been playing this hole wrong for a while, although I've been technically right by re-teeing.  Dropping on this hole will likely result in placing the ball which makes the drop that much better.  Thanks for the answers everyone.

That's the beauty of Reteeing ... You're never on the wrong side of the rules going that route. Always safe. :)

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkolo

Is this actually a lateral hazard? If I didn't have any knowledge about what stakes were marking it, I'd have called this a regular water hazard. The rule of thumb I always went off of was if you have to play over the water, it's generally not a lateral.

Personally I feel the stream in front should be a water hazard (yellow stake), but in fact the entire stream is marked red.  Makes no sense to me but it is what it is.  Although I suppose if you shanked one short in the water you would just take a normal drop behind the hazard as if it were a straight water hazard so it makes no difference.

The picture is poorly done, my MS Paint skills aren't what they used to be!  The stream in front spans all of 20 yards, probably less than that.

I the future, you could use Google Earth and take a photo of the hole from above.  Then draw on in with something like Word.  We do that a lot on this forum to show the hole for discussion. It is pretty easy.

[DrvFrShow]

The stream being marked in red makes a very interesting issue if you hit your tee shot fat and make it across and it rolls back into the hazard. Technically you made it across and can take a drop there because it's red. If it were yellow, you couldn't.

There is another option and that is to hit from the other side of the stream, if that isn't out of bounds, keeping your entry point between you and the hole. We have a spot on my home course where I will do this because of the ground slope.

[natureboy]

The stream being marked in red makes a very interesting issue if you hit your tee shot fat and make it across and it rolls back into the hazard. Technically you made it across and can take a drop there because it's red. If it were yellow, you couldn't.

There is another option and that is to hit from the other side of the stream, if that isn't out of bounds, keeping your entry point between you and the hole. We have a spot on my home course where I will do this because of the ground slope.

Beat me to it, though it sounds like a drop on that side of the lateral would be an unpleasant downhill lie.

[Motown88]

I the future, you could use Google Earth and take a photo of the hole from above.  Then draw on in with something like Word.  We do that a lot on this forum to show the hole for discussion. It is pretty easy.

Can't do that.  The hazard runs into an O.B. fence so there is no where to drop on that side.