Caddies Overused

[saevel25]

I want to see these guys out there carrying their own bags and playing on their own.

I think if they did this there would be less -20 scores out there!

I don't.

[iacas]

Of course the decision lies with the player. But if he had a caddie with any golf IQ he probably would not have attempted it, at the very least had a conversation about options. I saw it live and we all thought that he should not have been trying that under the circumstances. He made the only play that could have lost it for him on that hole. No need to force anything with a two shot lead.

You have the benefit of hindsight on this one.

Had he hit the ball near the green, chipped it close, and tapped in for par, you'd have been wrong but we'd have never heard about it. He might make par or bogey and avoid the water altogether 97 times out of 100. You don't know.

In his own words he thought it was no big deal to get it over. So why would you get talked into something else? Sometimes you just don't pull off the shot even though you might 97% of the time.

Laying up in no way guarantees a par. If he bogeys and the other guy birdies, it's a playoff… and you've made a lot of bogeys coming home. If you put it on the green or near the green, you likely win outright.

I think going for it might have been the right play. It just didn't happen to pan out. Sometimes you make a good pitch and the batter still hits a home run.

[phan52]

You have the benefit of hindsight on this one.

Had he hit the ball near the green, chipped it close, and tapped in for par, you'd have been wrong but we'd have never heard about it. He might make par or bogey and avoid the water altogether 97 times out of 100. You don't know.

In his own words he thought it was no big deal to get it over. So why would you get talked into something else? Sometimes you just don't pull off the shot even though you might 97% of the time.

Laying up in no way guarantees a par. If he bogeys and the other guy birdies, it's a playoff… and you've made a lot of bogeys coming home. If you put it on the green or near the green, you likely win outright.

I think going for it might have been the right play. It just didn't happen to pan out. Sometimes you make a good pitch and the batter still hits a home run.

The point is, he wasn't "going for it". While he was trying to hit it over the creek, he was still laying up. And I am not speaking from hindsight, as I thought it was a mistake when he did it.

As Spieth and Day are proving, golf on that level can be a team game and the caddie is a huge part of it.

[Elmer]

I don't.

I know guys that are scratch who walk the course carrying their own bag.
no GPS, no caddie, beer in hand. out there by themselves.
I will concede that a pro is not going to carry their bag for 4 days and still score -20, but I think it would be interesting to watch the pros have to play golf the way we do.
Years ago the PGA made a stink about letting that disabled kid ride in a cart, but they continue to baby the pros by letting someone else carry the load. Let us see how good they are on their own.
For if no other reason than applebee will have no one to yell at and fire when he hits a bad shot or plays poorly.

[iacas]

The point is, he wasn't "going for it". While he was trying to hit it over the creek, he was still laying up. And I am not speaking from hindsight, as I thought it was a mistake when he did it.

It was a par four. You don't know that he wasn't going for it. He was advancing his ball as far as he thought he could. For all you know, as I said above, that was STILL the smart play. Sometimes you just get the bad result, even if the play was the right one. Going for it (over the creek) was perhaps still the right decision. You have hindsight and a small sample size. Again, if it was a 97% chance he'd succeed, that's the right play. He may just have happened into one of the 3%.

As Spieth and Day are proving, golf on that level can be a team game and the caddie is a huge part of it.

Nobody's denying that. But in this specific case, I doubt a caddie would have changed the decision.

[isukgolf]

but I think it would be interesting to watch the pros have to play golf the way we do.

You meaning riding in a cart using the in cart GPS or asking that one buddy that has a laser?

[Elmer]

You meaning riding in a cart using the in cart GPS or asking that one buddy that has a laser?

I dont ride.

Most the guys in my league walk as well.

Some guys use GPS (as I do)

the 2 best golfers, handicap 0 and -1 walk and dont use a GPS.

For PGA I would be willing to trade the caddy for a GPS.

[isukgolf]

I dont ride. Most the guys in my league walk as well. Some guys use GPS (as I do) the 2 best golfers, handicap 0 and -1 walk and dont use a GPS. For PGA I would be willing to trade the caddy for a GPS.

I am guessing here ... but the two best players, play that particular course many times during the year and have for a few years ... so they probably could play it blind folded ... in comparison to a touring professional player, that plays many courses through out the year. I just think we can't compare a pro to someone like me, when it comes to playing tour golf and the value of a caddie. :-)

[Elmer]

I am guessing here ... but the two best players, play that particular course many times during the year and have for a few years ... so they probably could play it blind folded ... in comparison to a touring professional player, that plays many courses through out the year.

I just think we can't compare a pro to someone like me, when it comes to playing tour golf and the value of a caddie.

What about a scratch golfer who plays a course for the first time and plays to his handicap?

Pro golfers have practice rounds so they get to know courses.

But as a pro their game is at a point where they put the ball where they want to, so once they know where they need to be they have a plan. I dont think pros are wandering around lost on a course, their job is to learn that course and I think the caddie helps with that.

My point was that how many times have we stood at an inbetween club distance, with some wind and tried to decide between clubs and strategy.

We dont have a caddie to help with that decision. Sometime I wish I had someone to talk me out of the foolish shots I have tried.

The execution is always going to be on the golfer with or without a caddie, but since the golfer is rewarded for the win I want to, just once see a pro golfer earn it on their own!

[mdl]

I have an old golf magazine somewhere around here where a writer decries courses adding yardage markers on the course as cheating. His point was that estimating the distance should be a skill of the game.

I don't agree that this should be required.  Traditionally without yardage markers either guys were all playing on their local course and pretty much knew all the yardages or, later, had caddies when playing away clubs and had hired local knowledge.

But, I've been playing a course recently that I don't know well and which doesn't have the obvious colored stake markers, just infrequent and seemingly randomly places yardage stones.  A couple times I've just eyeballed it with some help from knowing the full hole yardage and my typical distances with my tee club.  It's a fun challenge.  I've done pretty well the few times I did this.  I think it might be a fun game to play with a group of friends.  Play a course no one knows well where there are at most the yardage stones, preferably no markers, just a book, and then require no one use a yardage book or look at the stones.  Just know the total distance from the scorecard and then you have to deduce/eyeball it after the tee shot.

[Mop Bucket]

You say golf is an individual sport, and from the amateur standpoint, it is. But in the professional scheme of things, this couldn't be further off from the truth. You have to remember that the pros usually only get to a course a few days before the tournament begins. This leaves them little to no time to feel out the greens, plan an attack strategy, fine-tune their swing and shapes for that week, and on top of it all, find yardages. This is where the caddie comes in. In modern golf, the caddie is less of a club carrier and more so the golfer's own personal statistician on the course. I think of it as the guy who gives the sniper distances, wind change, and strategy. With a caddie, most pros wouldnt stand the same chance of finishing low as the others. At the level that the PGA pros play at, a few yards could be the difference between walking away with a cup and nothing. If I was in their position, I'd want someone I could 100% count on to give me the correct yardage and conditions to hit that shot. It ultimately comes down to the player making a swing so I don't know what the big deal is.