range balls vs real balls experiment results

[Lihu]

Wind isn't a problem. It's usually a cross wind. I think they did this to shorten the amount of time they have to pay the guy to drive the cart to pick up the balls. I noticed far fewer balls near the back fence. So with this being the case instead of picking that up several times during the day (it gets busy) they'll only have to pick past 225 once a day. But as a video gamer, I'm used to the bait and switch.

Makes sense to use limited flight balls in general for any course, but if a range supports normal flight balls it could draw more golfers?

[DrvFrShow]

I suppose it could, but in the winter, they're the only heated range in the area, and limited flight balls are probably cheaper, too.

So I guess I can still work on accuracy except that 9 iron hole becomes my 8 iron shot while I'm there, and the 8 iron shot becomes my 7 iron shot. And work on primarily my swing and shot shape and forget if my distances are all messed up. I'll just have a lesson to get raw club carry distances with real golf balls come spring.

[natureboy]

That's what @Pretzel thinks as well.

I missed @Pretzel 's post about worn range balls hydroplaning more when wet. I agree.

I don't think there's much difference with our range balls. I think they fly pretty much as far as normal balls.

Is Cap Hills your 'home' course? I would agree with driver, but some of the worn ones can get pretty funky on varying spin rates with irons. I think they are also off on distance on the compression side for shorter wedge shots that aren't hit at full swing speeds.

[colin007]

I missed @Pretzel 's post about worn range balls hydroplaning more when wet. I agree. Is Cap Hills your 'home' course? I would agree with driver, but some of the worn ones can get pretty funky on varying spin rates with irons. I think they are also off on distance on the compression side for shorter wedge shots that aren't hit at full swing speeds.

I play more at Town of Colonie, but I use the range at CHills predominantly. I think the balls are pretty consistent. There haven't been hardly any really worn out balls this year. And any wonky ball flights are due to my miss hits, not the ball. I haven't noticed any of those things.

[Lihu]

I think the balls are pretty consistent. There haven't been hardly any really worn out balls this year. And any wonky ball flights are due to my miss hits, not the ball. I haven't noticed any of those things.

Let us know if the balls continue to be consistent with play balls as the weather gets colder? I know in 91F weather they fly nearly the same. New ones are almost identical in my limited experience. . .

Rick Shiels found no difference:

Others as well have found the same thing, but they compared new range balls. . .

However, here's a source that states from experience that it's possibly the worn out surface finish on the balls that creates drag. It's possible?

[natureboy]

I play more at Town of Colonie, but I use the range at CHills predominantly.

I think the balls are pretty consistent. There haven't been hardly any really worn out balls this year. And any wonky ball flights are due to my miss hits, not the ball. I haven't noticed any of those things.

I agree they are pretty consistent. Overall the quality I find is better than last year - some seemed brand new...they may have bought a new batch. I do come across at least 2-3 clunkers per basket myself with a lawnmower ding that often produces two-way ball flight. I find there are usually about 3-6 balls that are noticeably more worn than the bulk of the well conditioned ones. I find their flight most 'different' from premium balls with wedge shots. The irons and driver with the 'worn' ones is slightly less. Not sure, but sometimes the off-center shots with range balls seem to go shorter than premium as well, but it's well within the range of my normal distance variation.

Let us know if the balls continue to be consistent with play balls as the weather gets colder? I know in 91F weather they fly nearly the same. New ones are almost identical in my limited experience. . .

Rick Shiels found no difference:

Others as well have found the same thing, but they compared new range balls. . .

However, here's a source that states from experience that it's possibly the worn out surface finish on the balls that creates drag. It's possible?

Good video find.

The first guy says the wedges are virtually identical, but the average spin difference between the two sets was 2,500 RPM. That's like a 25% drop and I think how you flight the ball will differentially affect how much your carry distance would change.

Not sure I heard the second guy specifically point to drag as the culprit on the lost 'lacquer' (I assume he means worn cover). My recollection is that the loss of lift (magnus effect) for a ball with worn down cover (shallower dimples) is the predominant effect to carry distance. I think a smoother ball (shallower dimples) would actually have less drag.

[natureboy]

On 9/24/2015 at 7:50 PM, Lihu said:

I was thinking that it was a combination of many effects like temperature, water on the worn surface, water soaked into the paint and all the scuffs and tiny chips taken out of the surface of the balls through use. The temperature seems to affect compression and flight, while the surface water and moisture seems to affect drag and the "boundary layer" around the ball reducing some spin and increasing drag? I didn't do any real tests to prove this at all. These are very coarse observations.

After some reading on impacts, I think two things are at work. One is the possibility of moisture / condensation in or on the ball and/or clubface on a 'dewey' morning that reduces friction and therefore spin so less lift to maintain normal carry plus extra drag from the colder air. The other is raw temperature of the golf ball. Ball compression matters to spin (new to me) because the deformation of the ball increases friction on the face and allows the oblique hit from the angled loft to transfer momentum to the outer part of the ball rather than more through the center. A colder, harder ball will deform and spin less unless you have the swing speed to squash it anyway. That's why harder balls go farther for players with higher swing speeds, they help keep the spin rate more in the 'optimal' range for normal carry, where a softer ball would likely start ballooning.

[Lihu]

36 minutes ago, natureboy said:

After some reading on impacts, I think two things are at work. One is the possibility of moisture / condensation in or on the ball and/or clubface on a 'dewey' morning that reduces friction and therefore spin so less lift to maintain normal carry plus extra drag from the colder air. The other is raw temperature of the golf ball. Ball compression matters to spin (new to me) because the deformation of the ball increases friction on the face and allows the oblique hit from the angled loft to transfer momentum to the outer part of the ball rather than more through the center. A colder, harder ball will deform and spin less unless you have the swing speed to squash it anyway. That's why harder balls go farther for players with higher swing speeds, they help keep the spin rate more in the 'optimal' range for normal carry, where a softer ball would likely start ballooning.

You're probably correct on both these points. I also noticed that the range balls go much lower in cooler temperatures like 45F. I started a round in that temperature, but practiced on the range before going (planning on doing this more) and noticed that the balls at the range went much lower than my Pro-V1 (standard pro-V1 feel softer in colder temperatures than the x).

The main difference between my premium balls and the range balls was their surface conditions and the hardness of the balls. My premium balls were in the trunk of my car and the the range balls were probably in the 35F temperature range sitting in damp cold conditions?

There was about a 20 yard difference in drive(s), and a proportional difference as you use shorter clubs based on my random shots on the course throughout the round. On the range I even used a mat while on the course imperfect lies, so the difference might be even greater?

The sample size of the first hole is one, while the sample size of the range balls is 10. The fairway of the first hole is parallel and in the same direction as the driving range. The other holes don't count so much as there was a breeze which could vary the distances by 10-20 yards or more? I could see where some of my 10 balls rolled to on the range through the fence as the course picked it clean the evening before (which is unusual).

[Dave2512]

When I was using FlightScope the variance in limited flight balls and premium balls was roughly 20 yards. In fact all the ball numbers changed a bit. I would save the balls I found on the course and bring those to lessons to hit when we used FS. 

My parents club, where my instructor is, uses LFRB because the range is so small. It's an older club built in the persimmon era. They ask men not to hit driver at the range. On weekends range closes at 3PM to allow the people that live in the homes that back to the range to enjoy their yards without risk of being beaned. A good hybrid gets to the yards. 

[Lihu]

4 hours ago, Dave2512 said:

When I was using FlightScope the variance in limited flight balls and premium balls was roughly 20 yards. In fact all the ball numbers changed a bit. I would save the balls I found on the course and bring those to lessons to hit when we used FS. 

My parents club, where my instructor is, uses LFRB because the range is so small. It's an older club built in the persimmon era. They ask men not to hit driver at the range. On weekends range closes at 3PM to allow the people that live in the homes that back to the range to enjoy their yards without risk of being beaned. A good hybrid gets to the yards. 

 

This is also true, but in this case I think the balls re not technically flight limited. Some that explicitly state limited flight pop up in the mix and fly just a tad shorter than the normal range balls.

It's probably just a compression and surface effect thing? Not really sure, but most people on the range don't hit that far. Even a group of Pepsi Tour players (and two champions tour players) didn't really drive the ball that far and it's 50F at the range with balls that have core temperatures of 42F.

On the cool news: I got some swing tips from a few Pepsi Tour players (two of whom were Champions Tour regulars)!