My Quest to Break 80 in a Year (July 2016) from a 22 Handicap

[ChrisWev]

Hi, a bit of help if any of you can explain or offer any advice?

What would be typical examples of "good/ typical" launch angles for PW-5I, ie the second the ball leaves the face?

The reason I ask is my launch angles (from SkyTrack, which are the same on GC2 HMT) don't seem to differ the amount that the lofts change with each club. Should they? I know spin should increases with more loft, expecting spin loft/ dynamic loft for an eventual higher launch but my spin numbers don't vary that much form 5I - PW (all spin numbers look low to me, might this be the ball type?).

I use Ping G20's at the minute and Bridgestone E7 balls (which all tests are done with), both of which will be changed out soon.

Data:

Ping G20 Lofts		My LA	My BS	Carry	Back Spin
PW	45	30	93	120	5000
9I	40	27	94	127	4400
8I	36	22	103	139	4800
7I	32	19	107	149	4500
6I	29	19	110	160	4500
5I	26	16	112	155	4000

Tests based on hitting about 10-15 shots, pretty much taking out the top two and the crap and averaging the rest. I've had some 5 Irons get up to 170-180 carry so there's something not right in there. I don't hit my 4 Iron, my 3hy launches at 12 deg and carries around 175 but I don't like that either, the shaft feels like an elastic band.

I typically play the 7I in the centre of stance and then move to ball forward/ back half a ball length(ish) per club as this has seemed to get the most consistent strikes, but I'm not sure if I'm getting the best out of the lofts and obviously don't strike my 5I well. I don't really use my 5I often in all honesty.

I know the gapping may look "right", but these are based on the better average so to speak, in reality the 5,6,7,8 and sometimes 9 all bunch up at 135-150 carry (or seem to on the course anyway).

I know I should be hitting down with my PW and 9I etc but how quick should this be levelling out? should I still be hitting down with the 5I, which would improve the strike/ loft? It sometimes feels like I catch the 5 and 6 a bit thin (strike doesn't feel great) and these clubs are the only ones in my bag that sometimes fade, rather than 90% draw. I only have GC2 HMT data for the 7I which says I hit 5 degrees down with that, which apparently is ok?

I'll post a vid once I set up my swing area the other way round (the way it's set up at the minute doesn't leave much room behind for the camera, or anything else for  that matter), can't do a face on at the minute or I'll be whacking balls down the road .

[Lihu]

As of these last three weeks my shots are taking more time to go shorter distances, roughly a club or 2 longer than you quoted. Helps hold greens I guess. A couple months ago I was getting 6500rpm with my PW. Now, hoping more. I was pulling a lot of shots which took off a lot of spin because the clubface was closed. You can see it in my last posted video. I've just started improving this situation, and am hoping for even more spin with straighter shots.

[ChrisWev]

As of these last three weeks my shots are taking more time to go shorter distances, roughly a club or 2 longer than you quoted. Helps hold greens I guess. A couple months ago I was getting 6500rpm with my PW. Now, hoping more. I was pulling a lot of shots which took off a lot of spin because the clubface was closed. You can see it in my last posted video. I've just started improving this situation, and am hoping for even more spin with straighter shots.

That's what I want, to be able to hold greens rather than blasting through, which happens too often :~( I've checked the Flightscope trajectory optimiser and I won't loose any carry from more loft, but can really reduce the roll. I'm going to try some softer balls to see how that helps and I'll be aiming for higher launch with the new clubs I think. There's something up with club deliver too I suspect. This summer I've transitioned my shot shape from a slice to a draw which starts straight and goes 10y or so left (as I've not figured out how much draw to play yet), maybe that is effecting spin, having the clubface closed and taking loft off.

[ChrisWev]

I've been carrying out some investigative work over the last month to figure out why my irons were bunching together distance wise, especially on the course. ie sometimes my 9i was carrying 140 yards, my 6i was carrying anywhere from 120-160, I've been reluctant to use my 5i and haven't even taken my 4i on the course. The "pure" strikes dropped in percentage with each longer club. Overall prior to my test I would estimate overall that my PW was drawing 15 yards 9i drawing slightly less, 8i pretty much straight (I guess this one was hitting centre of clubface more often, generally my best iron on course), 7i would sometimes fade and then a 15 yard fade with the 6 and a slice with the 5!

I put some face tape on a couple of different clubs last week and my suspicions were correct, the longer the club gets, the more the strike has been going towards the heel which has been killing distance and having big gear effect issues.

4 July - 6i was carrying 147 yards average and never feels "pure", 6i was carrying less than my 7i!

7 July - 6i was carrying 151 yards average, changed a few things in setup. Got one out to 161 which felt "good".

23 July - 6i was carrying 153 yards average, started standing a bit more upright and aligning slightly towards the toe

25 July - 6i was carrying 162 yards average, put face tape on first shots were still way in the toe, so adjusted slightly and got shot pattern it to just inside the centre of the clubface. 6i started to feel like a club I could actually use!

27 July - 6i was carrying 171 yards average, adjusted ball position slightly further forward and got shot pattern to centre of the clubface with good grouping, bad ones were bottom groove. Really hit some good clean strikes.

I'll be aiming to try this with the 5i now and see what happens and also quick check my pw,9,8 and 7. Once I'm getting better grouping near centre with all the clubs I'll have to re adjust where I'm aiming to account for the draw.

I bit of 6i data from the last few weeks. Spin numbers are probably about 1500-2000rpm lower due to the face tape. The face tape is reducing spin, increasing carry but it's also probably having a small effect in reducing the spin loft too. I've checked the flightscope trajectory optimizer and my numbers without the face tape would carry about 5 yards less.

Overall I've gained about 20 yards in a month, really happy with that.

Don't read too much into the dispersion as I've not been paying much attention to the alignment.

I've also moved my hitting area into the newly cleaned out garage (which will be my temporary swing room until I move house). It's much less noisy for the neighbours than when I was hitting in the garden and it's permanently set up with my skytack now so I can get a quick practice in more often.

I've also been working on my putting for an hour or so every day, I've now got a putting mirror so I can check my eye line above the ball as well as my shoulders and been sticking more with the SBST (or very, very minor arc) pendulum approach to putting which I find much easier than the arc method.

Distance control had been a major problem for me with the putter so I've put lines on the mirror so I can gauge how far I need to travel my club head back to putt for certain distances (I just guessed every putt before). This is helping massively as I've now easily figured out how much difference there is with my office carpet (v fast), practice green at the course (v slow), greens on course (medium), my carpet at home (medium). The problem I'm having now is it's hard for me to estimate the long putt distances over 20ft as the club travels too far back to use any estimated reference travel point on the ground.

[ChrisWev]

Following on from yesterday, I've added 30 yards average onto my 5i carry (compared to a week ago) after my test today, just by setting the ball up slightly towards the toe, moving the ball slightly further forward in my stance and standing a bit more upright.

I've gone from my 5 and 6 iron carrying the same as my 7i (150y) to gained distance with all, much cleaner strikes and miles better gapping Quite impressed with myself, especially the 5i that I got out to 189 carry, that one really felt sweet!

Looking forward to putting this to test on the course when the weather stops being so crap!

[ChrisWev]

I also carried out some ball tests with the wedge, based on some suggestions from a previous thread I created:

I wasn't swinging great for the TaylorMade's in the middle but the spin numbers looked good and 20% higher than the Z-Star. It's just a case of seeing if they're too high and what they're like with the driver and around the greens. The Bridgestone e7's were going about 4 yards further, but for the sake of them being very low spinning with wedges, the distance is just not worth it for holding greens.

[Jameson]

I also carried out some ball tests with the wedge, based on some suggestions from a previous thread I created:

I wasn't swinging great for the TaylorMade's in the middle but the spin numbers looked good and 20% higher than the Z-Star. It's just a case of seeing if they're too high and what they're like with the driver and around the greens. The Bridgestone e7's were going about 4 yards further, but for the sake of them being very low spinning with wedges, the distance is just not worth it for holding greens.

Nice challenge here!! I will look forward how it goes since I want to do something similar, maybe a bit less ambitious, but . . .

[Lihu]

I also carried out some ball tests with the wedge, based on some suggestions from a previous thread I created:

I wasn't swinging great for the TaylorMade's in the middle but the spin numbers looked good and 20% higher than the Z-Star. It's just a case of seeing if they're too high and what they're like with the driver and around the greens. The Bridgestone e7's were going about 4 yards further, but for the sake of them being very low spinning with wedges, the distance is just not worth it for holding greens.

One suggestion I would make is to possibly mix course/range results with your simulator results? You can get an idea of what the ball will really do by "feel/sound" of the strike, this way when you need to use the simulator full time in the winter you will have some realistic expectations for spring?

[ChrisWev]

Thanks Lihu/ Jameson, I opt for the playing on course whenever I can which is  when I finish work early enough and it's decent weather.

The weather recently has been pretty crap over here in the UK (a lot of wind and rain) for the last week and I've only just got the SkyTrack so making best use of the time I suppose. To be honest I've learnt more about my swing messing around with this in the last couple of weeks than I have all summer on course (as far as the full swing goes). I'm a bit wary about going to the driving range as not sure how much of an impact range balls have, even the guys that run them don't have a clue if they're 100% balls, distance balls, 70% balls or whatever. Saying that, all the testing I've done previous on GC2 has been with the same range balls. I'm going to make some sort of base and a mat which I can peg to the grassed area at my course, so I can practise the alignment better to flags, rather than aiming at a stone 4 feet in front of me.

Just by using the sim and face tape I am much better equipped to recognise a poor shot, and can often call where it's hit on the face before I look at the face tape (when using face tape that is). I'm much closer to centre now and get a lot more "pure" strikes and I think my swing speed has gone up with the extra confidence.

I hit about 60 9i's yesterday (using the Z-star ball) that felt great but I was surprised why they were carrying only 3 yards further on average (124) than my PW (121), even though there was a large increase in my ball speed and much better strikes, over the previous set of 9i's. The absolute furthest carried 130, which is short of my old maximum. It didn't make sense until I realised it turns out the mat I was hitting off was loose (and having a wave/ ripple like effect before and after the ball which was adding way more spin). Hit another two after I fixed the problem and was up to 131 already, and they were not even great strikes, I reckon that average good strikes will go up to  about 133, with a max of about 140. Lesson learnt in ensuring everything is set up correctly!

[Jeremie Boop]

I have been playing the project a's for a little over 2 rounds now and they seem pretty good. I've not been able to get a good read on the spin into greens as the greens are rock hard around here right now. Are you prone to high ball flight, because I thought the E7 was supposed to bring down the trajectory.

[shooter]

Breaking 80 once is fluke. It's nice your trying to hit solid iron, but unless your throwing darts to 2 feet, I'd focus on other aspects. You will need to putt and chip like a man possessed. If you have time to practise,go throw balls in the woods and still find a way to make par.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

Breaking 80 once is fluke. It's nice your trying to hit solid iron, but unless your throwing darts to 2 feet, I'd focus on other aspects. You will need to putt and chip like a man possessed. If you have time to practise,go throw balls in the woods and still find a way to make par.

It's actually been proven that improving your ball striking can improve your scores more than "chipping and putting like a man possessed"

[Hellstorm]

I'm going to chime in on this because i've been where you are ChrisWev......it took me 3 years and lots of practice to go from a 100 shooter to actually breaking 80.  Really, the key for me was getting the driver under control and working on the wedge game.  Even when I was shooting in the 80s and 90s, almost all my trouble was related to the driver.  Penalties and poor angles for second shots literally killed every round I played.  I'm talking like 6 or 7 lost balls out of control.  I had been getting close for a while but the day I broke it, I shot a 42 on the front so I wasn't even thinking about it and ended up shooting 1 under on the back to do it.  I was able to do it a week later on a much harder course and I have done it a few times since.....still nothing below 78 but I will take those rounds all day.

Keep practicing and your day will come.  Good luck.

[ChrisWev]

Breaking 80 once is fluke. It's nice your trying to hit solid iron, but unless your throwing darts to 2 feet, I'd focus on other aspects. You will need to putt and chip like a man possessed. If you have time to practise,go throw balls in the woods and still find a way to make par.

By breaking 80 I mean breaking it and then improving on that further when I get there. I disagree, I already chip and pitch well so the main thing to improve would be what I'm worst at which is the full swing, more so with the 5 and 6i. Also my putting is crap but I'm working on that too. I'm not often in the woods (1/36 holes) so practicing that would be pointless.

[Lihu]

Breaking 80 once is fluke. It's nice your trying to hit solid iron, but unless your throwing darts to 2 feet, I'd focus on other aspects. You will need to putt and chip like a man possessed. If you have time to practise,go throw balls in the woods and still find a way to make par.

I'm going to chime in on this because i've been where you are ChrisWev......it took me 3 years and lots of practice to go from a 100 shooter to actually breaking 80.  Really, the key for me was getting the driver under control and working on the wedge game.  Even when I was shooting in the 80s and 90s, almost all my trouble was related to the driver.  Penalties and poor angles for second shots literally killed every round I played.  I'm talking like 6 or 7 lost balls out of control.  I had been getting close for a while but the day I broke it, I shot a 42 on the front so I wasn't even thinking about it and ended up shooting 1 under on the back to do it.  I was able to do it a week later on a much harder course and I have done it a few times since.....still nothing below 78 but I will take those rounds all day.

Keep practicing and your day will come.  Good luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shooter

Breaking 80 once is fluke. It's nice your trying to hit solid iron, but unless your throwing darts to 2 feet, I'd focus on other aspects. You will need to putt and chip like a man possessed. If you have time to practise,go throw balls in the woods and still find a way to make par.

By breaking 80 I mean breaking it and then improving on that further when I get there.

I disagree, I already chip and pitch well so the main thing to improve would be what I'm worst at which is the full swing, more so with the 5 and 6i. Also my putting is crap but I'm working on that too. I'm not often in the woods (1/36 holes) so practicing that would be pointless.

You really need all of them.

Golf is definitely not easy, in fact is really really hard. . .

[ChrisWev]

I'm going to chime in on this because i've been where you are ChrisWev......it took me 3 years and lots of practice to go from a 100 shooter to actually breaking 80.  Really, the key for me was getting the driver under control and working on the wedge game.  Even when I was shooting in the 80s and 90s, almost all my trouble was related to the driver.  Penalties and poor angles for second shots literally killed every round I played.  I'm talking like 6 or 7 lost balls out of control.  I had been getting close for a while but the day I broke it, I shot a 42 on the front so I wasn't even thinking about it and ended up shooting 1 under on the back to do it.  I was able to do it a week later on a much harder course and I have done it a few times since.....still nothing below 78 but I will take those rounds all day.   Keep practicing and your day will come.  Good luck.

Yeah I had big driver issues last year, seem to have made progress with that so I've moved onto sorting out my gapping and mid-long irons, which I think has been costing me shots. Thanks for the encouragement :-)

[Hellstorm]

Yeah I had big driver issues last year, seem to have made progress with that so I've moved onto sorting out my gapping and mid-long irons, which I think has been costing me shots. Thanks for the encouragement

I had the driver going well for me last year and after a long winter and really practicing my wedges this spring, the driver has been a big disappointment.  My scoring average has actually gotten worse this year because of the driver problems so yeah, I agree with you.  The full swing is very important and if you feel that's what you need to work on, then by all means do it.  Just careful not to neglect the other areas.

[ChrisWev]

Had my first round (well 10 holes before it got dark) in a week last night, easily the best I've played, could have easily been +4 for 10 holes. With my iron strikes being much better I found it so much easier being able to use irons off the tee to play a safe 200 yard shot. Course and greens were fairly wet, hadn't practiced putting in a while and I hadn't hit my driver or long clubs for ages.

Hole(par):

1(4): Hit a 5i off the tee, got it to total out at 195 yards then hit 7i to front of green, easy 2 putt for par - Even

2(5): Nice drawing drive to 250 total, then hit 3 Hy 200 total (this was my maximum ever two shots in succession), Lob wedge into green, easy 2 putt for par - Even

3(3): Hit my GW pretty thin and flew through the green against a wall at the back, which was annoying. Chipped out and then onto green and two putt for double - +2

4(4): Hit hybrid off the tee, totalled 195, overdrawn 8i went left of bunker, chipped on and two putt - +3

5(5): Hit a 5i of the tee which overdrew by about 2 yards hit a branch and somehow darted into the woods, had to chip out but recovered pretty well with a 190y hybrid after, hit 7i to 15ft, which I three putted for double. This hole is normally simple, two shots wasted - +5

6(4): Hit down on drive which popped it up a bit, hit a good recovery punch 5i, a nice PW pitch and a good two putt. Great bogey considering this is SI 2 - +6

7(3): 6i to front fringe, good chip to 4 feet and then two putted, wasted shot - +7

8(4): Hit to of club face with driver but still went out to 220 somehow. Good PW to 6 feet, two putted, doh! Par - +7

17(4): Short par 4, hit great 3hy off tee and easy SW to 8ft, two putted for Par - +7

18(4): I think this is the hardest hole on the course, Hit top of club face with driver again, still went 200y somehow, good 9i layup before water and LW 50y into green, two putt for bogie - +8

I really shouldn't be hitting GW's thin off the tee on 3, had a shocker on 5 but that happens, very bad putting cost me a few shots. A bit of putting practice before the round to get the speed of the greens and 10 minutes with the driver could have easily got that to +4/5 off 10 holes, or even a bit of luck. Which would have me at about 40 for the front nine, which would have had me half way to 80.

Need to make sure I practice driving and putting for every round, even though our putting green is miles slower than the course. This will be more important with the ones where I'm playing 18 holes to give myself a fighting chance. If had continued in the same fashion, even with the scores as they were I would have been playing to 14 HCP, in not great conditions so moving in the right direction.

http://www.gamegolf.com/player/Wev/round/498888?hole_id=18824697