Dashcam catches off duty police officer out of control!

[Mr. Desmond]

The driver was even trying to get witnesses to tell the cruiser that he was "threatened" to make even more trouble. All he had to do was play a good citizen once he realized it was a detective that stopped him. He should also have known that he can't run a rotary like that.

The driver appeared to be the one who was mentally ill, he broke the law and then tried to play victim and acted defiant to the end.

Scary response.

So shooting is okay even if your version is correct?

And I do not agree with you. I think the guy said he made a mistake.

I think he was a victim of a scary, off-balanced, aggressive off-duty detective in a wife-beater and shorts shouting profanities and in the middle of the street. Heck, I would call other people over to protect myself, too.

I bet you watch Fox News. You know, fair and balanced...

[saevel25]

Police must not stereotype everyone in the area based on their presence in the area....

Some neighborhood's it's close to being true.

The driver was even trying to get witnesses to tell the cruiser that he was "threatened" to make even more trouble. All he had to do was play a good citizen once he realized it was a detective that stopped him. He should also have known that he can't run a rotary like that.

The driver appeared to be the one who was mentally ill, he broke the law and then tried to play victim and acted defiant to the end.

It sounded like the cop didn't do a good enough job showing he was a cop. Cops are sworn to do their job 24/7 when called upon. An off-duty cop can perform pretty much all the duties of an on-duty cop. By legal standpoint an off-duty cop should always immediately identify themselves as a cop.

This way you don't get into the situation above where the guy is trying to get away from a guy who is approaching him in a bad part of town.  It's at night. You see a guy cargo pants, and white undershirt pull up quickly next to you and orders you out of your car with out identifying himself as a cop. Come one, what are you going to do? I am going to get the hell out of dodge, or call the police. Even if the guy shows his ID, I am calling 911. Who knows if he is actually a police officer or not. I want a uniform police officer to show up.

The cop in this instance did a shit of a job to make the situation non-hostile.

[GolfLug]

I have been pulled over in, well, let's just say double digits in my non parent days because of a heavy foot. Can't remember ever feeling threatened. If I was to go through a similar experience as in OP, I would think THIS particular cop was out of line needs more training.

I think in life we should always guard against stereotyping. It is lazy to stereotype. It is a disservice to yourself, your family and your community. It is a HAZARD.

The police department now has one more what-not-to -do video in their training library. I hope they use it. Many (a fractional minority of all) of the cops probably need a refresher more often than others. I would think, that's what police HR and department heads have to be more vigilante of each of their departments about.

As of now, even considering incidences like this, I feel safer for myself and my family , will continue to feel safer around a blue uniform than I would be without one in sight. Anytime, anywhere.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

The driver was even trying to get witnesses to tell the cruiser that he was "threatened" to make even more trouble. All he had to do was play a good citizen once he realized it was a detective that stopped him. He should also have known that he can't run a rotary like that.

The driver appeared to be the one who was mentally ill, he broke the law and then tried to play victim and acted defiant to the end.

We need some clarification, but does the detective even have a right to pull someone over for a traffic violation? I'm not conceding that this is even a traffic stop, to me his was more vigilante like behavior by the "off duty" detective..

Tell me how was he defiant? He made an honest mistake and took a turn he shouldn't have.. I didn't sense he was lying at all.. People make honest mistakes.

Yes, any citizen can pull someone over. Most states allow this and MA is included.

It was an honest mistake running the rotary until he was pursued by the detective, told he it was a detective following him, tried to flee the scene then still kept his motor running, etc. Then he tried to play victim by getting witnesses to say he was threatened just to get out of a traffic violation that could potentially have led to a serious accident. Those rotaries are dangerous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

Police must not stereotype everyone in the area based on their presence in the area....

Some neighborhood's it's close to being true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

The driver was even trying to get witnesses to tell the cruiser that he was "threatened" to make even more trouble. All he had to do was play a good citizen once he realized it was a detective that stopped him. He should also have known that he can't run a rotary like that.

The driver appeared to be the one who was mentally ill, he broke the law and then tried to play victim and acted defiant to the end.

It sounded like the cop didn't do a good enough job showing he was a cop. Cops are sworn to do their job 24/7 when called upon. An off-duty cop can perform pretty much all the duties of an on-duty cop. By legal standpoint an off-duty cop should always immediately identify themselves as a cop.

This way you don't get into the situation above where the guy is trying to get away from a guy who is approaching him in a bad part of town.  It's at night. You see a guy cargo pants, and white undershirt pull up quickly next to you and orders you out of your car with out identifying himself as a cop. Come one, what are you going to do? I am going to get the hell out of dodge, or call the police. Even if the guy shows his ID, I am calling 911. Who knows if he is actually a police officer or not. I want a uniform police officer to show up.

The cop in this instance did a shit of a job to make the situation non-hostile.

Even so, a citizen is allowed to stop someone for a traffic violation. The detective didn't use excessive force stopping the driver.

[Abu3baid]

Yes, any [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen%27s_arrest_in_the_United_States]citizen[/URL] can pull someone over. Most states allow this and [URL=http://www.mass.gov/courts/case-legal-res/law-lib/laws-by-subj/about/criminal.html]MA[/URL] is included. It was an honest mistake running the rotary until he was pursued by the detective, told he it was a detective following him, tried to flee the scene then still kept his motor running, etc. Then he tried to play victim by getting witnesses to say he was threatened just to get out of a traffic violation that could potentially have led to a serious accident. Those rotaries are dangerous. Even so, a citizen is allowed to stop someone for a traffic violation. The detective didn't use excessive force stopping the driver.

Can you point me to where they say that citizens can pull other citizens over? I have this "Commonwealth v. Harris , 11 Mass. App. Ct. 165 (1981). Citizen's Arrest. "In Massachusetts a private person may lawfully arrest someone who has in fact committed a felony... The stricter requirement for a citizen's arrest -- that the person arrested be shown in fact to have committed a felony -- is designed to discourage such arrests and to prevent "the dangers of uncontrolled vigilantism and anarchistic actions." ...Generally, the person arrested must be convicted of a felony before the "in fact committed" element is satisfied and the arrest validated. If the citizen is in error in making the arrest, he may be liable in tort for false arrest or false imprisonment."" That's some very strict guidelines there.. And nothing about a traffic violation.. Also, the guy didn't identify himself as anything.. Until after the guy was backing up, and I can't blame him for backing up either.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Yes, any citizen can pull someone over. Most states allow this and MA is included.

It was an honest mistake running the rotary until he was pursued by the detective, told he it was a detective following him, tried to flee the scene then still kept his motor running, etc. Then he tried to play victim by getting witnesses to say he was threatened just to get out of a traffic violation that could potentially have led to a serious accident. Those rotaries are dangerous.

Even so, a citizen is allowed to stop someone for a traffic violation. The detective didn't use excessive force stopping the driver.

Can you point me to where they say that citizens can pull other citizens over?

I have this

"Commonwealth v. Harris , 11 Mass. App. Ct. 165 (1981). Citizen's Arrest.

"In Massachusetts a private person may lawfully arrest someone who has in fact committed a felony... The stricter requirement for a citizen's arrest -- that the person arrested be shown in fact to have committed a felony -- is designed to discourage such arrests and to prevent "the dangers of uncontrolled vigilantism and anarchistic actions." ...Generally, the person arrested must be convicted of a felony before the "in fact committed" element is satisfied and the arrest validated. If the citizen is in error in making the arrest, he may be liable in tort for false arrest or false imprisonment.""

That's some very strict guidelines there.. And nothing about a traffic violation..

Also, the guy didn't identify himself as anything.. Until after the guy was backing up, and I can't blame him for backing up either.

I also have links in my text.

Just be careful when you get stopped in Boston and surrounding cities. Don't act defiant, and everything will work out.

Keep in mind that the Bronx and Detroit are much less "forgiving".

[Abu3baid]

I also have links in my text. Just be careful when you get stopped in Boston and surrounding cities. Don't act defiant, and everything will work out. Keep in mind that the Bronx and Detroit are much less "forgiving".

I pulled that text from your own link.. It says nothing about a citizen pulling or arresting anyone they want.. It specifically says that they must be a convicted felon.. This has nothing to do with me, but rather the incident. You haven't answered how he was defiant.. Sea to me after the guy finally identifies himself as an undercover the guy complies even though, I'm sill not sure about the jurisdiction this undercover has in making this traffic stop to begin with.. Why did he have to call on duty cops? He had no legitimacy in what he did unless someone can explain to me that it was a legitimate stop by the undercover off duty cop on a traffic violation.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

I also have links in my text.

Just be careful when you get stopped in Boston and surrounding cities. Don't act defiant, and everything will work out.

Keep in mind that the Bronx and Detroit are much less "forgiving".

I pulled that text from your own link.. It says nothing about a citizen pulling or arresting anyone they want.. It specifically says that they must be a convicted felon.. This has nothing to do with me, but rather the incident.

You haven't answered how he was defiant.. Sea to me after the guy finally identifies himself as an undercover the guy complies even though, I'm sill not sure about the jurisdiction this undercover has in making this traffic stop to begin with.. Why did he have to call on duty cops? He had no legitimacy in what he did unless someone can explain to me that it was a legitimate stop by the undercover off duty cop on a traffic violation.

Yes, in fact, I did.

[Abu3baid]

Yes, in fact, I did.

Fair enough :)

[saevel25]

Yes, any citizen can pull someone over. Most states allow this and MA is included.

It was an honest mistake running the rotary until he was pursued by the detective, told he it was a detective following him, tried to flee the scene then still kept his motor running, etc. Then he tried to play victim by getting witnesses to say he was threatened just to get out of a traffic violation that could potentially have led to a serious accident. Those rotaries are dangerous.

How was he told the detective was following him when the video shows the detective cutting him off and jumping out of the car. The video shows the cop in front of the vehicle. The vehicle then proceeded to back up. Then the cop show'd his ID.

The cop did not do a good enough job in showing he was a cop. Honestly, if I was in MA and some citizen tries to pull me over I am calling the police for assistance. Even if the cop above showed me his ID, I am calling 911 to confirm he is a cop.

The guy in the vehicle is not legally obligated to exit the vehicle. There are stories where people keep the window up and put up a written sign saying he wants to talk to his lawyer. A cop is basically screwed because the guy has his right to not talk to the police for fear of incriminating themselves.

[ryan772]

Really? People deal with the police ALL THE TIME. I saw four cars pulled over with the police by them yesterday. I still haven't heard about any of those in the news.

[quote name="saevel25" url="/t/83549/dashcam-catches-off-duty-police-officer-out-of-control#post_1177658"] I've been pulled over 3 times in my life and never once felt threatened or have been threatened by a police officer. My Uncle is a state highway patrolman for Ohio. He is one of the kindest people I know.  Keep your stereotyping to a minimum please.  Pretty much this.  Are there cops who shouldn't be cops, yea. There are far more good cops than bad cops. I think the media is doing a terrible disservice latching onto all the bad stories and making it seem like it's the norm. I do think cops needs to take steps to really not be confrontational even after being provoked. If the person has committed a crime in the way they provoked the cop then be calm and call for backup. The cop can always arrest them at a later time under the cops terms. Be smart about it.  My uncle reviewed the shooting up in Cleveland, of the kid with the airsoft gun. He said the cops shouldn't have been in that place to begin with. The guy driving the car was a rookie cop who basically didn't follow procedure and forced his partner into a bad situation because he was put themselves into harms way. Just stupid stuff like that can help a lot. [/quote] In the month of march police officers killed more civilians then were killed by the united kindoms police officers the last 100 years.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Yes, any citizen can pull someone over. Most states allow this and MA is included.

It was an honest mistake running the rotary until he was pursued by the detective, told he it was a detective following him, tried to flee the scene then still kept his motor running, etc. Then he tried to play victim by getting witnesses to say he was threatened just to get out of a traffic violation that could potentially have led to a serious accident. Those rotaries are dangerous.

How was he told the detective was following him when the video shows the detective cutting him off and jumping out of the car. The video shows the cop in front of the vehicle. The vehicle then proceeded to back up. Then the cop show'd his ID.

The cop did not do a good enough job in showing he was a cop. Honestly, if I was in MA and some citizen tries to pull me over I am calling the police for assistance. Even if the cop above showed me his ID, I am calling 911 to confirm he is a cop.

The guy in the vehicle is not legally obligated to exit the vehicle. There are stories where people keep the window up and put up a written sign saying he wants to talk to his lawyer. A cop is basically screwed because the guy has his right to not talk to the police for fear of incriminating themselves.

I agree that at first, it was not clear enough, but once he identified himself as such and that he is calling a cruiser the driver should have taken a more good citizen role. If you call 911 on a stop like that you could just give him the heads up that that is what you are doing. If he's a real detective, he wouldn't mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Really?

People deal with the police ALL THE TIME.

I saw four cars pulled over with the police by them yesterday. I still haven't heard about any of those in the news.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

I've been pulled over 3 times in my life and never once felt threatened or have been threatened by a police officer. My Uncle is a state highway patrolman for Ohio. He is one of the kindest people I know.

Keep your stereotyping to a minimum please.

Pretty much this.

Are there cops who shouldn't be cops, yea. There are far more good cops than bad cops. I think the media is doing a terrible disservice latching onto all the bad stories and making it seem like it's the norm.

I do think cops needs to take steps to really not be confrontational even after being provoked. If the person has committed a crime in the way they provoked the cop then be calm and call for backup. The cop can always arrest them at a later time under the cops terms. Be smart about it.

My uncle reviewed the shooting up in Cleveland, of the kid with the airsoft gun. He said the cops shouldn't have been in that place to begin with. The guy driving the car was a rookie cop who basically didn't follow procedure and forced his partner into a bad situation because he was put themselves into harms way. Just stupid stuff like that can help a lot.

In the month of march police officers killed more civilians then were killed by the united kindoms police officers the last 100 years.

Magnitudes more civilians were killed/raped/robbed by other civilians in the United states as well.

[saevel25]

In the month of march police officers killed more civilians then were killed by the united kindoms police officers the last 100 years.

Only one police officer was killed (as a result of a crime) in the UK in the last 3 years.

67 Officers were killed (as a result of a crime) in 2014 alone.

Not sure how the UK Police officers would fair if they had to deal with a much more violent culture, like the inner city gangs found in the big cities in the USA.

It's not really applicable to compare totally different situations.

I agree that at first, it was not clear enough, but once he identified himself as such and that he is calling a cruiser the driver should have taken a more good citizen role. If you call 911 on a stop like that you could just give him the heads up that that is what you are doing. If he's a real detective, he wouldn't mind.

By the sounds of it, this guy would have went crazy if you went over his head and called 911. From news articles he has a history of anger issues with other citizens.

[ryan772]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_Kingdom Almost 1000 civilians were killed by police officers in the united states in 2014. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

[Lihu]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_Kingdom

Almost 1000 civilians were killed by police officers in the united states in 2014. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Where do you get your numbers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States

How many of them were in the act of a felony?

Here are the stats for civilian on civilian homicides:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Violent crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

[ryan772]

Where do you get your numbers? [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States[/URL] How many of them were in the act of a felony? Here are the stats for civilian on civilian homicides: [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States[/URL] Violent crimes: [URL=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States[/URL]

I dont understand your question. Are you seeing something different?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Where do you get your numbers?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States

How many of them were in the act of a felony?

Here are the stats for civilian on civilian homicides:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States

Violent crimes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

I dont understand your question. Are you seeing something different?

Yeah, 623 is not almost 1000.

[ryan772]

Yeah, 623 is not almost 1000.

I guess you missed te part where it said many are unreported and tge estimate the average to be about 930 a year. I guess you also believe that unemployment is about 5.5%?