Trackman Combine

[Lihu]

many of the "numbers" you'll be looking at are not exclusive to trackman, but really any launch monitor, as iacas pointed out choose 4-5 clubs. I wouldn't get hung up of spin rates of irons, its almost meaningless for lofted irons, especially with a mass produced bulk buy of range balls.

Drivers are a different story, Spin, launch angle, club head speed, smash factor and decent angle are far more critical to a driver, than any iron in your bag. especialy for an 11 handicapper.

A trackman or flightscope will give you raw data, but the data in a simple form you probably already know.

Personally learn to hit your clubs consistently with better ball striking is the secret. That should be the number one goal. Once comfortable and you'll have some days that will be better than others......Try to pick 3 distances you are comfortable with, for me it 105 yards, 135 yards and 160. I can hit all 3 yardages with 3 different clubs and ball flights very consistently....that is when you know you are hitting the ball consistently with different swing speeds and launch angles.

Thanks, I'll work on this.

[SCC4380]

Quote:

It's funny that on many of my par 4 drives I had 60/70/80 yard shots left. I thought about practicing these distances more?

If that is the case, you should be practicing those distances. I always have a longer second shot than that.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCC4380

Quote:

It's funny that on many of my par 4 drives I had 60/70/80 yard shots left. I thought about practicing these distances more?

If that is the case, you should be practicing those distances. I always have a longer second shot than that.

There are lots of short par 4s out there.

[Lihu]

While I am not "practicing" for the combine test specifically, I am looking a lot more carefully at where my balls are landing on the driving range. I've been hitting close to 2 to 3 buckets a day doing "target practice", and finding that getting the kind of dispersion for high scores is very difficult, of course. I've spent a good deal of time with my 60, 52, 49, 46 yard clubs, and with the 34, 30 yard clubs, and the 26 and 22 degree clubs. The 22 degree club carries too far at 72F early morning temperatures. Even the 30 might be just a tad short of my 180 mark. I spent time trying to get a feel for my 60 partial swings, and got into this mode where I hit 70-80 yards and could break out of it. Rested a couple minutes then got my 90 yard distances. I decided that you can get way more control hitting a 54 to 90 yards with a "lazy" partial swing than a full 60. My 52 with that same lazy swing gets me 100-110 pretty consistently. Everything else is with full swings, and attempts at full flights. I'm attempting to tame my driver, from the slices pushes etc. if I take a nice easy swing, I can get reasonable distances that are less than 20 to 30 yards off line. This is going to take a lot more balls just to get where I'd like. The thing that gets me is the occasional shank or thin shot. I'm going to have to spent a lot more time at address to prevent these stupid bad shots, and I did. Spending about 1 minute per shot helped me reduce (eliminate in this range session) those terrible mishits. Still had lots of mishits, but at least they were manageable. I have to say, training for combine is helping me strike the ball more consistently. I still feel far from ready, and the more I train the more I realize that people who score well are really good!

[mvmac]

This is the biggest benefit I see in training for the Combine test. If I'm going to spend $$$ on this evaluation and time on the Trackman, I'd better have the best possible swing I can produce at this time.

Well you don't want to "career" the combine, you want an accurate evaluation.

[DrvFrShow]

I agree the OT+ remark. Also if you want to use it for an evaluation of where you are right now and have it display the flaws and what you need to work on. Do you want to groove what you need to work on even more?

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

This is the biggest benefit I see in training for the Combine test. If I'm going to spend $$$ on this evaluation and time on the Trackman, I'd better have the best possible swing I can produce at this time.

Well you don't want to "career" the combine, you want an accurate evaluation.

Yes, of course. I'm practicing what I need for an improved game, not for the Combine per se.

Every time I setup for a shot on the range, I feel a little apprehension regarding the outcome. This makes me take another practice swing or align myself better for the shot or even come out of address and re-align yet again. Not a bad thing in my mind anyway.

I agree the OT+ remark. Also if you want to use it for an evaluation of where you are right now and have it display the flaws and what you need to work on. Do you want to groove what you need to work on even more?

Yes, agree. However, what I've found is that the Combine really makes me think about every shot and realistically look at the outcome of each shot.

I was on the range today, and someone mentioned that I hit my 9i 150 yards. I told him that it landed 138 yards, and it should not have rolled to 150. This is a serious problem on the course. Now, I am trying to get enough spin to stop it as soon as possible. Not successful 95% of the time, but that is what I am attempting. This is what training for the Combine is doing for me in my mind anyway.

[HeGotGame]

What is this combine you guys are talking about?

[Lihu]

What is this combine you guys are talking about?

Trackman Combine

Click on the text above.

[Lihu]

I got an answer from Trackman regarding range ball versus premium ball differences:

What I am guessing is that Hard range balls are the majority of range balls, and that there is almost no difference in distance with new range balls. The spin rate is higher for longer clubs and lower for shorter clubs. I suppose some range balls could be as much as 5% or less if they are really worn and used? Not such a good thing if you are looking at distance control using range balls.

One thing I observed is that they seem to spin way less or more depending upon the ball temperature. The Pro-V1/x I use tend to have similar characteristics over a wider temperature range? I suppose they are premium because they behave the same over wider playing conditions?

[Lihu]

I discussed the distance of range ball versus premium ball with several people who hit a lot on the range and play a lot on the course. They concluded that the answer from Trackman is only for initial velocity and not carry and total distance. Therefore if you carry some distance with a range ball, you will most likely carry a lot farther with a premium ball (they were all saying it is something like 7% to 10%, and one was about 15%)? Not sure I'm convinced of this or not, because I almost always hit mid to long irons worse on the course than on the range or get this freakishly long shot that rolls a long way which makes it impossible to tell. I feel like up to 150 yards the distances are identical. Well, I'll soon see. . .it's not like I'm going to be training for this with specific clubs or anything anyway. . .

On that note, I called twice to make an appointment this week, and didn't get an answer yet. It might be yet another week, I'm dying from anticipation.

[Lihu]

Still figuring out which set of clubs will give me the most consistent results. I have at least some semblance of a chance of carrying within +/-10 yards of the target distance using these clubs:

TM Rac 60W- 60 yard, 70 yard and 80 yard. Distance control is very hard even though I am not exerting much energy at all with these shots. It seems to be better with very careful setup and repeated practice swings?

TM Rac 52W - 90 yard, 100 yard. Distance control is also hard here. The difference between a 90 and 105 yard swing is some feel that I can barely sense.

Mizuno MP-52 PW- 120 yard. Just have to be careful not to shank or swing too hard. :-P

Mizuno MP-52 8- 140 yard. This is a pretty comfortable distance, I used the MP-32 to mostly this distance with flightscope at >95F temperatures and downhill, and this club is comparable and a little more forgiving. Cross fingers. . .

Mizuno MP-52 6- 160 yard. If I use a 6i, it might be a little too far, but I can also control it better. Seems like mishits are more likely than goo hits. 7i using "Dave Wedzik-scope" gave me a few less than 160 in >95F temperatures and downhill. This means that adjusted for 72F temperatures a 6i might be just right? It's a "guess". . .

Ping i20 4- 180 yard. This is still TBD as I seem to get about 165-175 yards with the wet air and ball 65F conditions. Hoping that drier and 72F calibrated conditions I might be able to get 170-177 which would put me within 10 yards of the target distance. Wild guess. . .

Ping i25 9 degrees PWR 55-S, still working on getting rid of my slice. If I can do it like I did on 3/20 shots on a launch monitor, then I should have reasonable carry and total distances. Half my shots still have >600 rpm side spin, but at least none of them got to 1800rpm. :-P

Still lots of work to do. . .

[Lihu]

Getting used to my current club distances. . .

Ping Karsten B60 1959 Putter
TM Rac 60,54(bent to 54 or 55-ish) wedges
Ping i20 Ui-4i CFS S
Callaway XHot-pro hybrid 20 degree PX6.0
Callaway Diablo 3W stock S
Ping i25 PWR55-S 9.5

However, I am thinking about lengthening the Ping i20 back to the stock length as they were shortened almost an inch for my son 3 years ago (now they're too short for him, and I get to use them ), and that should get me more "proper" distances with each club.

Other than that, I'm on track to take the combine in early April, when it was recommended that I take the test. Once at the start of the "season" and once at the end.

[Dave2512]

You do like to tinker don't you :). Wouldn't it be best to use whatever clubs you use regularly? Kind of sounds like you are throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.

Personally I don't think there is much to be gained from the combine. I suppose if it was a consideration for where your game is at paired with instruction and monitoring progress it would be worth it. When I was using FlightScope every other week or so we looked at the ball numbers as a way to demonstrate what needed to be changed and measure progress.

From one lesson to another those numbers changed. Heck if I hit 15 balls with the same club every shot had different numbers. My right to left dispersion with a 7i was something like 38 yards and the plot of balls all over in that sizable oval. That was with my instructor advising me and being very deliberate with every shot. The only thing I ever gained from it was seeing my numbers was validation the changes we made meant we were heading in the right direction. Even then progress was slow.

You mentioned backing away from technology but to me it seems what you seek to learn would be easier with Game Golf. Once you get enough rounds in there patterns start to develop. It's what you really do on the course not some controlled testing situation that may or may not be representative of how you actually play. For a while I compared different sets of irons. Honestly the averages were pretty much identical, within a few yards from set to set. I used 4 drivers this year aside from a few good rounds temporarily inflating the averages at the end of the year the difference was 4 yards. It's not my clubs it's my swing.

[Lihu]

11 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

You do like to tinker don't you :). Wouldn't it be best to use whatever clubs you use regularly? Kind of sounds like you are throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.

Personally I don't think there is much to be gained from the combine. I suppose if it was a consideration for where your game is at paired with instruction and monitoring progress it would be worth it. When I was using FlightScope every other week or so we looked at the ball numbers as a way to demonstrate what needed to be changed and measure progress.

From one lesson to another those numbers changed. Heck if I hit 15 balls with the same club every shot had different numbers. My right to left dispersion with a 7i was something like 38 yards and the plot of balls all over in that sizable oval. That was with my instructor advising me and being very deliberate with every shot. The only thing I ever gained from it was seeing my numbers was validation the changes we made meant we were heading in the right direction. Even then progress was slow.

You mentioned backing away from technology but to me it seems what you seek to learn would be easier with Game Golf. Once you get enough rounds in there patterns start to develop. It's what you really do on the course not some controlled testing situation that may or may not be representative of how you actually play. For a while I compared different sets of irons. Honestly the averages were pretty much identical, within a few yards from set to set. I used 4 drivers this year aside from a few good rounds temporarily inflating the averages at the end of the year the difference was 4 yards. It's not my clubs it's my swing.

Not really, just want to get the clubs back to "standard". Admittedly, in the past I was playing with more difficult clubs for training purposes. Now, I am enjoying the fruits of that tough playing with relaxed playing using my GI clubs.

The Combine appears to be a good metric to gauge how I am doing against other people at my HC level on a standard measurement system.

Okay, I see another endorsement of GG on the horizon, even after this one. . . Admittedly, all three failed attempts at using it were with the exact same GG system. If they sent me one for me to test, maybe I'd spend the time to make it work? Other than that, I find it difficult to spend the $150 (sale prices at Golfsmith or Golf Galaxy) to get a product that hasn't yet worked for me. . .

A product that looks interesting is PIQ, but I doubt the speed measurements will be that accurate, but it's about the same price as GG Live.

[Dave2512]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

Okay, I see another endorsement of GG on the horizon, even after this one. . . Admittedly, all three failed attempts at using it were with the exact same GG system. If they sent me one for me to test, maybe I'd spend the time to make it work? Other than that, I find it difficult to spend the $150 (sale prices at Golfsmith) to get a product that hasn't yet worked for me. . .

I saw your post mentioning the previous GG experiences. It's really not difficult to use despite not being perfect in what it does. Pretty much everything you described is easily fixed in the editing process. You can probably recall shots you hit 20 rounds ago. If something is missing or incorrect in your round moving a tag or deleting/adding a shot takes seconds. Takes no more time than typing a post in the "what did you shoot today" thread, which is more often than not a play by play anyway.

We could have edited 20 rounds in the time we've spent on TST today. I've actually had GG CS put a blank round into my account so I could recreate one that recorded just one tag. It wasn't difficult at all. My score on each hole was enough to remember everything. My added shots may not have been exactly where the tags were but it was dang close. I've played my course enough I can look at the map and remember where I parked my cart to play a shot.

 

[Lihu]

36 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

I saw your post mentioning the previous GG experiences. It's really not difficult to use despite not being perfect in what it does. Pretty much everything you described is easily fixed in the editing process. You can probably recall shots you hit 20 rounds ago. If something is missing or incorrect in your round moving a tag or deleting/adding a shot takes seconds. Takes no more time than typing a post in the "what did you shoot today" thread, which is more often than not a play by play anyway.

We could have edited 20 rounds in the time we've spent on TST today. I've actually had GG CS put a blank round into my account so I could recreate one that recorded just one tag. It wasn't difficult at all. My score on each hole was enough to remember everything. My added shots may not have been exactly where the tags were but it was dang close. I've played my course enough I can look at the map and remember where I parked my cart to play a shot.

The reason I would use a technology like this is so I don't have to worry about remembering what I did on the course. The 75 I got could not have been reliably edited. By the time I realized it was wrong, I had forgotten what I did on those holes and which club I used. As I have not spent the money on it, there's no need for me to figure out how to fix the "bugs in the system".

Like I stated earlier, if they sent me one to try out, I might be apt to spend more time trying to fix the issues. As it is, I have nothing really to prove to anyone what I do on the course, plus if you can edit it the way you are describing it probably is not that good at proving what you did on the course anyway. If GG offered the same "proof" of performance as Combine it could be worth it, but it can obviously be tampered with.

 

Combine offers verification of your current potential playing level by a certified Trackman coach who is most likely a PGA certified coach.

If you want to verify your actual current playing level, then playing in a club with handicap verification is the best way to accomplish that.

[Dave2512]

It doesn't sound like you edited your rounds or if you did your looking at them seems to be brief at best. I won't say it's impossible to forget a shot but there are clues everywhere in the editing process. If I miss a tag every other tag on that hole gives me an idea of what I did and it detects shots and sometimes suggests what club may have been used based on the yardage between tags.

Can't speak for anyone else but I usually have to delete a shot (tag) not add one. A lot of double taps standing around on tee boxes waiting. I would seriously consider giving it another go because three rounds or whatever you tried won't even establish a pattern. It's an entire season of Trackman Combine type data if you use it every round. It's showing you the same stuff for every round, but you get more than a TC score you are looking at your actual shots and being able to see how it affected your round. 

One thing GG did for me was being able to enter challenges helped me focus. You mentioned having a purpose tends to help you work towards things. When I joined the GIR Is King challenge I was definitely more deliberate with my approach shots. Not that I shouldn't be anyway but I wanted to be near the top with the leaders. And I was and the result of increased focus was through that challenge my GIR % was 7% better than my season average. I also made more birdies than usual. That's huge for me.