Husband and Wife Relations

[united]

I could never imagine being in a relationship where the other person told me what I could or couldn't do, and when I could or couldn't do it. I'm a grown man. Which in and of itself means I understand what's important and whether or not it's interfering with something. A girl who says, "You can't do this because you do it too much and I want you to do X" is not someone who you want to be in a relationship with. The one who understands the things you enjoy and that make you happy and encourages you to do those things is the type of person we all should be with. That being said, you don't act braindead and schedule a tee time when her parents are coming over. It's just common sense, and you do that because you actually care about her. If you don't, then you probably shouldn't be in the relationship to begin with. But if you're with a woman who tells you that you can't do something just because she doesn't like it or thinks that you do it too much? Uhh yeah...no.

[Duff McGee]

I could never imagine being in a relationship where the other person told me what I could or couldn't do, and when I could or couldn't do it. I'm a grown man. Which in and of itself means I understand what's important and whether or not it's interfering with something. A girl who says, "You can't do this because you do it too much and I want you to do X" is not someone who you want to be in a relationship with. The one who understands the things you enjoy and that make you happy and encourages you to do those things is the type of person we all should be with. That being said, you don't act braindead and schedule a tee time when her parents are coming over. It's just common sense, and you do that because you actually care about her. If you don't, then you probably shouldn't be in the relationship to begin with. But if you're with a woman who tells you that you can't do something just because she doesn't like it or thinks that you do it too much? Uhh yeah...no.

Often times it is a lot more complicated than this. This my book recommendation.

[newtogolf]

My wife is awesome and supports my passion for golf so I've yet to reach that "too much" level.  That said I am also very conscious of her support and do my best to ensure golf does not impact anything that is important in her life or our families.

[united]

Often times it is a lot more complicated than this. This my book recommendation.

Yeah, it's really not. You're just with the wrong person.

[united]

My wife is awesome and supports my passion for golf so I've yet to reach that "too much" level.  That said I am also very conscious of her support and do my best to ensure golf does not impact anything that is important in her life or our families.

AKA you're a human being who understands what it means to be in a relationship and your wife does as well. Unfortunately not everybody does. Glad there's at least one other person out there who understands how relationships are supposed to work.

[Duff McGee]

Yeah, it's really not. You're just with the wrong person.

Yeah, it really is. At least it is in a lot of circumstances. How dare you flippantly say that to these people that have kids and families, etc. why do people always presume that they are so superior that they can tell people simply "you're witht he wrong person, cut and dried," when you have no idea what their lives are like. That's shows a lack of compassion and a lack of intelligence. Btw- I'm not one of the people you are talking about. I'm just sticking up for them. What you just said was woefully ignorant.

[mailman]

The wife can't complain too much. She bought me a 3 month subscription to play golf at a local course so it's actually her fault I'm addicted to golf ;) I guess I'm somewhat fortunate as I can play golf when I want as long as it doesn't clash with anything for the family. I could play Saturday and Sunday (and have in the past) but realise that's not fair on her as she is lumped with looking after the child while I head down to the course an hour before the round to warm up, then have a 4 hour round followed by another 40 minutes to an hour to have a drink afterwards. Lump in fortnightly lessons (another 2 hours away) plus me taking every opportunity I can to practice then it just makes being considerate of her needs even more important. Regards Mailman

[newtogolf]

Yeah, it really is.

At least it is in a lot of circumstances. How dare you flippantly say that to these people that have kids and families, etc. why do people always presume that they are so superior that they can tell people simply "you're witht he wrong person, cut and dried," when you have no idea what their lives are like. That's shows a lack of compassion and a lack of intelligence.

Btw- I'm not one of the people you are talking about. I'm just sticking up for them. What you just said was woefully ignorant.

I disagree to some degree, when two people love each other they do whatever they can so the other person is happy.  My wife and I have two kids who are in their late teens now.  We have always made family our first priority (besides work at times) and supported each other in doing things that bring us joy as individuals.

If the person one is married to is resentful of the time spent golfing then most likely there are problems in other places.  Ultimately given the circumstances one who has a passion for golf isn't with the right person if they are consistently forced to choose between golf and an argument with their spouse.   Counseling may resolve the issues but most guys I know that have wives who are resentful of golf (or other time spent away from their spouse) end up getting divorced or giving up golf.

[Duff McGee]

I disagree to some degree, when two people love each other they do whatever they can so the other person is happy.  My wife and I have two kids who are in their late teens now.  We have always made family our first priority (besides work at times) and supported each other in doing things that bring us joy as individuals. If the person one is married to is resentful of the time spent golfing then most likely there are problems in other places.  Ultimately given the circumstances one who has a passion for golf isn't with the right person if they are consistently forced to choose between golf and an argument with their spouse.   Counseling may resolve the issues but most guys I know that have wives who are resentful of golf (or other time spent away from their spouse) end up getting divorced or giving up golf.

Ok let me rephrase a little. I am also of the school of thought that the reason the divorce rate is so high is that people are choosing people who they are largely incompatible with. So I agree with him that the person may, in fact, be with the wrong person. But who are we to come on an Internet forum and callously and flippantly tell people that they are with the wrong person. That's pretty presumptuous and not helpful at all.

[newtogolf]

Ok let me rephrase a little. I am also of the school of thought that the reason the divorce rate is so high is that people are choosing people who they are largely incompatible with. So I agree with him that the person may, in fact, be with the wrong person.

But who are we to come on an Internet forum and callously and flippantly tell people that they are with the wrong person. That's pretty presumptuous and not helpful at all.

Overall I agree it's not helpful, but anyone who allows an internet forum to influence a life decision like ending a marriage is likely not very stable to begin with.

[Duff McGee]

Overall I agree it's not helpful, but anyone who allows an internet forum to influence a life decision like ending a marriage is likely not very stable to begin with.

While that is true and funny, I actually meant to say that it's not very nice or correct and is basically an insult to people in that horrible situation (former divorcee)

[united]

Yeah, it really is.

At least it is in a lot of circumstances. How dare you flippantly say that to these people that have kids and families, etc. why do people always presume that they are so superior that they can tell people simply "you're witht he wrong person, cut and dried," when you have no idea what their lives are like. That's shows a lack of compassion and a lack of intelligence.

Btw- I'm not one of the people you are talking about. I'm just sticking up for them. What you just said was woefully ignorant.

I'm not flippantly saying anything. I'm not superior to anyone. If you allow someone to tell you that you can or can't do something that makes you happy, then you need to address it with them. If they're unwilling to change you're with the wrong person. Relationships are about making each other better, not tearing each other down. If your relationship does that, you're in a crappy one. If you're a man who lets your wife tell you what to do and when to do it, you're not a man.

The wife can't complain too much. She bought me a 3 month subscription to play golf at a local course so it's actually her fault I'm addicted to golf ;)

I guess I'm somewhat fortunate as I can play golf when I want as long as it doesn't clash with anything for the family. I could play Saturday and Sunday (and have in the past) but realise that's not fair on her as she is lumped with looking after the child while I head down to the course an hour before the round to warm up, then have a 4 hour round followed by another 40 minutes to an hour to have a drink afterwards.

Lump in fortnightly lessons (another 2 hours away) plus me taking every opportunity I can to practice then it just makes being considerate of her needs even more important.

Regards

Mailman

Again, an example of being a human and understanding a relationship from both sides. Pretty simple.

I disagree to some degree, when two people love each other they do whatever they can so the other person is happy.  My wife and I have two kids who are in their late teens now.  We have always made family our first priority (besides work at times) and supported each other in doing things that bring us joy as individuals.

If the person one is married to is resentful of the time spent golfing then most likely there are problems in other places.  Ultimately given the circumstances one who has a passion for golf isn't with the right person if they are consistently forced to choose between golf and an argument with their spouse.   Counseling may resolve the issues but most guys I know that have wives who are resentful of golf (or other time spent away from their spouse) end up getting divorced or giving up golf.

Anyone who tells you not to do the things that you enjoy is not someone who truly cares about you. They're someone who cares more about themselves.

Ok let me rephrase a little. I am also of the school of thought that the reason the divorce rate is so high is that people are choosing people who they are largely incompatible with. So I agree with him that the person may, in fact, be with the wrong person.

But who are we to come on an Internet forum and callously and flippantly tell people that they are with the wrong person. That's pretty presumptuous and not helpful at all.

So I'm right, but because I said it and you didn't, I'm wrong. I couldn't be any less presumptuous. I'm just stating something that's obvious. I'm sorry that it clearly makes you uncomfortable.

While that is true and funny, I actually meant to say that it's not very nice or correct and is basically an insult to people in that horrible situation (former divorcee)

Yeah it's not very nice or correct to try and empower people and get them to understand that they deserve to be happy in a relationship and that it takes two (including their wife/girlfriend, and not just them bending over backwards to please someone). I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out. If somebody finds what I'm saying insulting they should probably look in the mirror and figure out if it's because there's some truth to it and that's why they're offended. Until somebody who is actually in that position disagrees, I don't think they need you defending them.

[Scotsclaff]

Probably one of the best posts I've read on the Sandtrap. Touche.

[Duff McGee]

I'm not flippantly saying anything. I'm not superior to anyone. If you allow someone to tell you that you can or can't do something that makes you happy, then you need to address it with them. If they're unwilling to change you're with the wrong person. Relationships are about making each other better, not tearing each other down. If your relationship does that, you're in a crappy one. If you're a man who lets your wife tell you what to do and when to do it, you're not a man.  Again, an example of being a human and understanding a relationship from both sides. Pretty simple. Anyone who tells you not to do the things that you enjoy is not someone who truly cares about you. They're someone who cares more about themselves. So I'm right, but because I said it and you didn't, I'm wrong. I couldn't be any less presumptuous. I'm just stating something that's obvious. I'm sorry that it clearly makes you uncomfortable. Yeah it's not very nice or correct to try and empower people and get them to understand that they deserve to be happy in a relationship and that it takes two (including their wife/girlfriend, and not just them bending over backwards to please someone). I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out. If somebody finds what I'm saying insulting they should probably look in the mirror and figure out if it's because there's some truth to it and that's why they're offended. Until somebody who is actually in that position disagrees, I don't think they need you defending them.

I don't care who said what. I don't care about "being right." But coming on here and telling people that they are probably not with the right person is far too overly simplistic and ignorant. I may feel the same way in general, but you can't presume that your rule is one size fits all. Do you know how many men out there are stuck with the choice of barely seeing their kids, paying $1,800 a month for child support while their car is breaking down and they live in a one bedroom shack and having broken relationships with family, friends, and their children? Edit: one of my practice areas is child custody and divorce and I see this type of sad stuff every day.

[Scotsclaff]

Most people can figure it out for themselves,they don't need a book.

[united]

I don't care who said what. I don't care about "being right." But coming on here and telling people that they are probably not with the right person is far too overly simplistic and ignorant.

I may feel the same way in general, but you can't presume that your rule is one size fits all. Do you know how many men out there are stuck with the choice of barely seeing their kids, paying $1,800 a month for child support while their car is breaking down and they live in a one bedroom shack and having broken relationships with family, friends, and their children?

Edit: one of my practice areas is child custody and divorce and I see this type of sad stuff every day.

Are we having the same conversation? What does any of what you said here have to do with what I'm saying? The bolded means these people are way past the point of going golfing being a problem.

You're acting like dealing with divorce every day makes you an expert. What you do for a living isn't relevant, and neither is admitting you've been divorced. That might actually just prove my point more. Just relax and quit defending people who aren't even here. The only people who have responded have agreed with me. Calm down and accept that people out there who aren't divorced have a different opinion than you.

[Braivo]

I could never imagine being in a relationship where the other person told me what I could or couldn't do, and when I could or couldn't do it. I'm a grown man. Which in and of itself means I understand what's important and whether or not it's interfering with something. A girl who says, "You can't do this because you do it too much and I want you to do X" is not someone who you want to be in a relationship with. The one who understands the things you enjoy and that make you happy and encourages you to do those things is the type of person we all should be with. That being said, you don't act braindead and schedule a tee time when her parents are coming over. It's just common sense, and you do that because you actually care about her. If you don't, then you probably shouldn't be in the relationship to begin with. But if you're with a woman who tells you that you can't do something just because she doesn't like it or thinks that you do it too much? Uhh yeah...no.

I think this is well said but is really just touching the surface of the larger dynamic. These are symptoms of a healthy relationship, but what makes the relationship healthy goes much deeper and is more complicated as @Duff McGee has pointed out.

This is about making yourself as the main focus in your life. You do what you want and others follow your lead. You just get it, you use common sense like skipping golf to take your wife out on her birthday, watch your kids' game, etc. Normal functioning men will understand where the line is an not cross it, they also don't need to be told by their wives what the priority needs to be, they just know.

Too man men are afraid to lead their own lives. They hand decision making over to their wives thinking it will "make them happy." Wrong. It does just the opposite. A woman does not want to make all of the decisions for her and her husband. She will resent that role and it will destroy the marriage. Make a decision. You say "honey, FYI, I'm gonna golf Saturday morning with my friends, do we have any conflicts." You are not asking for permission, you are using simple courtesy to inform the person you share a household with what your plans are and to make sure you haven't missed anything that may conflict with them.

If you "get it" and live a life of your own she will respect you. If you love your wife and enjoy spending time with her you will make plenty of quality time to spend with her that doesn't take away from golf. It isn't hard.

I don't care who said what. But coming on here and telling people that they are probably not with the right person is far too overly simplistic and ignorant.

I may feel the same way in general, but you can't presume that your rule is one size fits all. Do you know how many men out there are stuck with the choice of barely seeing their kids, paying $1,800 a month for child support, and having broken relationships with family, friends, and their children?

Edit: one of my practice areas is child custody and divorce and I see this every damn day.

I have been divorced and pay child support, I've been there. I now have a two-year relationship based on a completely different dynamic. I've seen both sides.

[Duff McGee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff McGee


Often times it is a lot more complicated than this. This my book recommendation.

Most people can figure it out for themselves,they don't need a book.

Actually that is objectively not true. With many of us growing up after the feminist movement and the "new rules" of society that we are taught from grade school we are quickly becoming more and more alienated from what we have been for hundreds of thousands of years. Our brains have become enlightened as a society but our primal urges and attraction triggers are rooted in the ancient past. The way men are taught to behave now is counter productive in a lot of ways. For example, the media and psychologists would have men bending over backwards to turn into a sensitive, dull, woman type of a man and that is a giant turn off to most women at the biological level. Our ever increasing divorce rate of 50% is a very damning indication that things are not working out with conventional wisdom. It's like that "Everybody Loves Raymond" episode where Ray buys a sex game and Deborah doesn't seem to like it. He thinks it's because she wants to "talk about feelings" and stuff like that where instead she basically tells him that he is just not sexy and that he's not actually good at sex but that she wants to be ravaged.