Husband and Wife Relations

[Gator Hazard]

Don't apologize. You simply participated in a debate amongst men about a topic that is of utmost importance in our lives - how we relate to women.

Now that this thread is in the OT section I feel as though I can respond to some of your thoughts from earlier.

In the original thread you called me out on a few statements I made regarding "leading" and the difference between what a woman says she wants and what she actually wants. Admittedly, those statements did not come across as I had intended because i knew it was off-topic and out of respect for Erik and this site I get very uneasy when things go OT.

As human beings we crave leadership. There are numerous studies that show our instinctual tendency to defer to authority figures, etc. Groups, families, nations, etc. that find themselves with a vacuum of leadership often find themselves in trouble. This explains Trump's popularity, in a field of apologetic softies he comes across as a powerful leader, and people flock to this despite disagreeing with his policies and views.

When it comes to families it is no different. There must be leadership. A family must have a leader, someone who points the family in the desired moral direction. Can this be the wife? Sure it can, but women are nurturers by nature, not leaders. Some embrace the role of leading a family, but most will subconsciously resent this role eventually. This is all supported by studies that show women leaders are simply not very happy. The large climb up the corporate ladder has left many women shocked to find it isn't all that great up there.

Now by "leading" I don't mean telling your wife what to do, think, etc. This isn't about that at all. It isn't a "my way or the highway" type of leadership. Rather it is about setting the tone for your marriage and family. You likely chose your wife because she shared your values, that in itself is your fist act of leadership, you weren't going to start a family with someone that didn't want to follow your moral path, correct?

As for women saying one thing and meaning another, again, there are studies (I'll have to look them up) that show women describing their perfect mate as "nice" and "agreeable", etc. etc. yet when shown pictures of men they'd like to date they choose the ones with facial features that match closely with narcissism and psychopathy - in other words the "bad boy". So when a woman says she wants a "sensitive, nice guy" that is her logical brain speaking, and she isn't being dishonest. However, at a more primal, evolutionary level she craves a strong man that makes her feel safe, that will protect her and her children. And who is likely to do that? Right, the muscular guy who isn't afraid to be disagreeable and ruffle some feathers. The classic "jerk" or "bad boy".

I hope you can now better understand where I am coming from with those statements, they were not meant to be misogynistic and I certainly don't claim to have all of the answers. These are simply theories relating to human behavior that I have observed to have some truth to them.

The attacks are unnecessary and really just show poor emotional control on the part of the attackers. Men having an intellectual discussion about human behavior, nothing wrong with that, but taking it personally and attacking is wrong. You took the attacks well, cheers

Being that I am usually the long winded one, I will keep this short and sweet.  Your explanation does clarify previous points. Thank you.  As previously stated, we are all on the this journey called life, it includes relationships and there are many roads to choose and go down.  We can't all go down the same one but we can all agree that we will try our best to do so with dignity and have positive experiences and relationships along the way.

Have a great weekend Braivo

[Duff McGee]

The attacks are unnecessary and really just show poor emotional control on the part of the attackers. Men having an intellectual discussion about human behavior, nothing wrong with that, but taking it personally and attacking is wrong. You took the attacks well, cheers :beer:

It's interesting that all of those people jumped to the conclusion that I had some kind of bitterness or bad experiences yet I never said the same about them: that they have sexless marriages and are lashing out because what we are saying hits a little too close to home.....hmmmmmm. But I wouldn't do that because how would I know? They can have opinions without actually having first hand experience.

[newtogolf]

It's interesting that all of those people jumped to the conclusion that I had some kind of bitterness or bad experiences yet I never said the same about them: that they have sexless marriages and are lashing out because what we are saying hits a little too close to home.....hmmmmmm.

But I wouldn't do that because how would I know? They can have opinions without actually having first hand experience.

How long have you been married Duff and how many kids do you have?

[Gator Hazard]

It's interesting that all of those people jumped to the conclusion that I had some kind of bitterness or bad experiences yet I never said the same about them: that they have sexless marriages and are lashing out because what we are saying hits a little too close to home.....hmmmmmm.

But I wouldn't do that because how would I know? They can have opinions without actually having first hand experience.

How long have you been married Duff and how many kids do you have?

A humurous way of Just sayin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XEbiTOwuI

[Duff McGee]

How long have you been married Duff and how many kids do you have?

7 years, two kids, 6 and almost 2 Married for 5 years plus 2 years of dating for my first marriage.

[newtogolf]

7 years, two kids, 6 and almost 2

Married for 5 years plus 2 years of dating for my first marriage.

I'm not going to knock what you're saying but 5 years doesn't make you an expert in relationships.  When you get to 25-30 years and your kids are grown and out of the house then you can say you've found a secret.  5 years still qualifies as "honeymoon period" but I'm glad things are going well for you.

[newtogolf]

A humurous way of Just sayin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43XEbiTOwuI

Exactly

[Braivo]

Being that I am usually the long winded one, I will keep this short and sweet.  Your explanation does clarify previous points. Thank you.  As previously stated, we are all on the this journey called life, it includes relationships and there are many roads to choose and go down.  We can't all go down the same one but we can all agree that we will try our best to do so with dignity and have positive experiences and relationships along the way.

Have a great weekend Braivo

It wouldn't be very fun to discuss if we all had the same opinions.

Thanks Gator. You have quickly become one of my favorite guys to interact with on here, looking forward to future discussions on different topics.

[Strandly]

As human beings we crave leadership. There are numerous studies that show our instinctual tendency to defer to authority figures, etc. Groups, families, nations, etc. that find themselves with a vacuum of leadership often find themselves in trouble. This explains Trump's popularity, in a field of apologetic softies he comes across as a powerful leader, and people flock to this despite disagreeing with his policies and views.

I don't think I agree with this at all.  Humans don't crave leadership (well, maybe a few do), they simply dislike indecisiveness.  In fact, I think people dislike indecisiveness more than they dislike bad decisions.

I think just about everyone expects Trump to lay some real decision making eggs if he were to be elected, but they also know he's not gonna stand there with his thumb up his butt.  There is significant appeal in that.

Anyway, what it all boils down to is confidence.  Both men and women think confidence is attractive and as a leader it's impossible to lead without possessing some level of confidence regardless of gender.

[Braivo]

I don't think I agree with this at all.  Humans don't crave leadership (well, maybe a few do), they simply dislike indecisiveness.  In fact, I think people dislike indecisiveness more than they dislike bad decisions. I think just about everyone expects Trump to lay some real decision making eggs if he were to be elected, but they also know he's not gonna stand there with his thumb up his butt.  There is significant appeal in that. Anyway, what it all boils down to is confidence.  Both men and women think confidence is attractive and as a leader it's impossible to lead without possessing some level of confidence regardless of gender.

Excellent point. Replace leadership with confidence and assertiveness and you probably get closer to the truth. My first post in this thread was making this exact point, that wives don't like indecisive husbands. Make decisions.