Trackman Measures Low Point

[saevel25]

http://www.golfwrx.com/326978/low-point-can-trackmans-newest-parameter-indicate-golfer-skill-level/

To summarize,

With a 6 iron,

Players ranging from Top-10 PGA Tour to Scratch golfers average 3.7 to 5.2 inches of low point after the ball

Players ranging from 10 handicap to 30 handicap average 3.9 to 7.2 inches of low point after the ball.

It looks like the low point moves forward a lot.

This tells me a few things.

First, higher handicap players tend to have the ball too far back in their stance. If they lack the weight forward key then the ball is too far back for them to average that much more. Also it means the club is coming in too steep as well. A shallower angle of attack will lessen the low point distance from the ball.

PGA Tour players are much more consistent in their ability to control low point.

I just find it interesting that Trackman is starting to measure the low point. I think it might be useful, but only with regards to other parameters such as ball position and angle of attack.

[nevets88]

Wait, what? I thought low point for higher handicaps would be more behind the ball. So telling high handicaps to get their low point forward, that's what they've been doing all along? It's get the path outward, rather than focusing on low point?

[saevel25]

Wait, what? I thought low point for higher handicaps would be more behind the ball. So telling high handicaps to get their low point forward, that's what they've been doing all along? It's get the path outward, rather than focusing on low point?

I think the reason is;

First) Ball is too far back

Second) Angle of attack is too downward

I think they are considering well struck golf balls. Not the I will flip and top the ball. Most golfers can hit the ball. That being they hit the ball first. If the average was before the ball then no high handicap person would ever hit the ball.

[Lihu]

Wait, what? I thought low point for higher handicaps would be more behind the ball. So telling high handicaps to get their low point forward, that's what they've been doing all along? It's get the path outward, rather than focusing on low point?

I think they assume the shots are not fat? The reason might be possibly that less skilled players are coming in too shallow on decent strikes?

[DrvFrShow]

Yeah, I need a $16000 piece of equipment to tell me that.

Do this ^^^ and you'll be fine. Less skilled players have not grooved their swings and are inconsistent at the swing motion. They don't get their hip turn and weight transfer to the front side timed consistently and will tend to chili dip a ball periodically. To compensate the weekend golfer will play the ball a little further back in their stance than desired.

[nevets88]

Look at the numbers in the screen cap. 6I, 130 carry, 30 roll. 30ft max height. Launch angle is 9. Spin rate seems low too. That's thin I'm guessing so low point is going to be ahead of ball? Also note the quotes around the word stock in stock shots. We'll get more info as more people get their hands on the new version, will be interesting to hear more details. Maybe more nuance?

[Lihu]

Look at the numbers in the screen cap. 6I, 130 carry, 30 roll. 30ft max height. Launch angle is 9. Spin rate seems low too. That's thin I'm guessing so low point is going to be ahead of ball?

We'll get more info as more people get their hands on the new version, will be interesting to hear more details. Maybe more nuance?

Usually, if you hit ahead of the ball you get a chunk shot. Could also be a shallow path that hits the ground after the ball?

[mvmac]

This tells me a few things.

First, higher handicap players tend to have the ball too far back in their stance. If they lack the weight forward key then the ball is too far back for them to average that much more. Also it means the club is coming in too steep as well. A shallower angle of attack will lessen the low point distance from the ball.

Yeah and with the lack of doing Key #2 properly, the high handicapper doesn't "get the club out of the ground". Lack of thrust and/or moving the head forward on the downswing.

That's thin I'm guessing so low point is going to be ahead of ball?

We'll get more info as more people get their hands on the new version, will be interesting to hear more details.

Fat or thin shots are basically the same mistake, just different compensations.

With that line drill the better player will consistently hit it in front of the line, as the handicap increases you'll start seeing the divots start at or behind the line.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

This tells me a few things.

First, higher handicap players tend to have the ball too far back in their stance. If they lack the weight forward key then the ball is too far back for them to average that much more. Also it means the club is coming in too steep as well. A shallower angle of attack will lessen the low point distance from the ball.

Yeah and with the lack of doing Key #2 properly, the high handicapper doesn't "get the club out of the ground". Lack of thrust and/or moving the head forward on the downswing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

That's thin I'm guessing so low point is going to be ahead of ball?

We'll get more info as more people get their hands on the new version, will be interesting to hear more details.

Fat or thin shots are basically the same mistake, just different compensations.

With that line drill the better player will consistently hit it in front of the line, as the handicap increases you'll start seeing the divots start at or behind the line.

What's the mistake? Coming in too steep or shallow?

EDIT: I think I got it.

[nevets88]

[QUOTE name="saevel25" url="/t/84513/trackman-measures-low-point#post_1201035"] This tells me a few things.  First, higher handicap players tend to have the ball too far back in their stance. If they lack the weight forward key then the ball is too far back for them to average that much more. Also it means the club is coming in too steep as well. A shallower angle of attack will lessen the low point distance from the ball.  [/QUOTE] Yeah and with the lack of doing Key #2 properly, the high handicapper doesn't "get the club out of the ground". Lack of thrust and/or moving the head forward on the downswing. [QUOTE name="nevets88" url="/t/84513/trackman-measures-low-point#post_1201103"] That's thin I'm guessing so low point is going to be ahead of ball? We'll get more info as more people get their hands on the new version, will be interesting to hear more details.[/QUOTE] Fat or thin shots are basically the same mistake, just different compensations.  With that line drill the better player will consistently hit it in front of the line, as the handicap increases you'll start seeing the divots start at or behind the line.

That's the thing about the results that make me scratch my head. None of the shots were "behind the line" for the high handicapper. Damn you Trackman. I have a headache. :-)

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by saevel25

This tells me a few things.

First, higher handicap players tend to have the ball too far back in their stance. If they lack the weight forward key then the ball is too far back for them to average that much more. Also it means the club is coming in too steep as well. A shallower angle of attack will lessen the low point distance from the ball.

Yeah and with the lack of doing Key #2 properly, the high handicapper doesn't "get the club out of the ground". Lack of thrust and/or moving the head forward on the downswing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

That's thin I'm guessing so low point is going to be ahead of ball?

We'll get more info as more people get their hands on the new version, will be interesting to hear more details.

Fat or thin shots are basically the same mistake, just different compensations.

With that line drill the better player will consistently hit it in front of the line, as the handicap increases you'll start seeing the divots start at or behind the line.

That's the thing about the results that make me scratch my head. None of the shots were "behind the line" for the high handicapper.

Damn you Trackman. I have a headache.

Are higher handicaps that much more inconsistent with making divots than, a mid handicap?

Quoted from the article:

The general rule with a mid iron is to create a divot in front of the line that’s neither too deep or too shallow, although turf conditions will be a factor. If you find that your Low Point is inconsistent from shot to shot, that’s a good indication that a lesson should be in your future. Remember, with iron play consistency is key!

It seems like a higher handicap doesn't necessarily chunk half his shots unless maybe a beginner?

[nevets88]

I went back to the piece to read new comments and I also read instructor FB comments. For those interested, other instructors were piqued. They all agreed that consistency of low point location varying w/handicap made sense, as it did to me. What was talked about was the high handicap low point location. Whew, glad it wasn't just me. One of the instructors mentioned thin too. W/new results like this, for the most part, IME, some of the old school thinking was right, it correlates w/the new but the new information adds more nuance and hard numbers. Will be interesting following this thread. Love the interwebs that it allows you to eavesdrop on the conversation.

[mvmac]

What's the mistake? Coming in too steep or shallow?

EDIT: I think I got it.

Simple answer is lack of Key #3. Results in fat and thin shots. Golfer comes in steep, pulls the arms apart or flips it in an attempt miss the ground behind the ball. Just depends on how they time it.

That's the thing about the results that make me scratch my head. None of the shots were "behind the line" for the high handicapper.

Oh, I didn't see that in the article. We know that higher handicappers try to hit the ball first by swinging down and left, obviously not the functional way to move low point forward. You can still mis-hit the shot and have low point forward of the ball.

We also know that the higher the handicap the more variable contact becomes, that's no secret

[billchao]

That's the thing about the results that make me scratch my head. None of the shots were "behind the line" for the high handicapper.

Damn you Trackman. I have a headache.

It's measuring low point of the arc, right? Just because you hit fat and contact the ground before the ball doesn't mean the low point of your swing arc didn't (or wasn't going to) occur until after the ball.

[mvmac]

It's measuring low point of the arc, right? Just because you hit fat and contact the ground before the ball doesn't mean the low point of your swing arc didn't (or wasn't going to) occur until after the ball.

That's how I'm interpreting it. You can hit it fat and still have the low point of the arc forward of the ball. It's not measuring where the club initially enters the ground.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao

It's measuring low point of the arc, right? Just because you hit fat and contact the ground before the ball doesn't mean the low point of your swing arc didn't (or wasn't going to) occur until after the ball.

That's how I'm interpreting it. You can hit it fat and still have the low point of the arc forward of the ball. It's not measuring where the club initially enters the ground.

You guys make a good point. That helps take me a bit out of my befuddlement, but 7 inches in front of the ball? That's a big ass divot.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao

It's measuring low point of the arc, right? Just because you hit fat and contact the ground before the ball doesn't mean the low point of your swing arc didn't (or wasn't going to) occur until after the ball.

That's how I'm interpreting it. You can hit it fat and still have the low point of the arc forward of the ball. It's not measuring where the club initially enters the ground.

You guys make a good point. That helps take me a bit out of my befuddlement, but 7 inches in front of the ball? That's a big ass divot.

I feel like just at the point where my game started to improve I was making divots in front of the ball 2" to 7". My playing partners called it "thin to win". At this point, I am trying to raise my ball flight, so I am reeling it back a bit to try to get more into the sweet spot. My bad shots are still 7" in front of the ball, and my good ones have divots that are shallow and right under the ball to 5" with a mid-iron.