Chipping stroke v. Putting stroke

[Big Lex]

It has been demonstrated that the best putters do not accelerate the putter head through impact, but actually employ more of a pendulum action which I believe reaches greatest velocity a bit before impact.

My question is: is the best chipping stroke the same, at least regarding the pendulum action? I know there are differences in chipping and putting (good putting strokes have a slight positive angle of attack, while chipping strokes have a slight negative angle of attack), but regarding the tempo or velocity or pattern of the stroke, is chipping like putting in that it's better to have a pendulum action and not try to consciously accelerate through impact?

I've had a poor chipping year, and I'm looking to work on this in the off season, and I want to make sure I'm working on the right thing. Many instruction books say chipping and putting are the "same stroke" but I don't know if everyone agrees on this or whether anyone has studied it in the way putting strokes have been studied. Thanks in advance for all the replies!

[Patch]

I don't know anything about the attack angles you mentioned. Never much thought about those topics. I can tell you that I use the same grip and stroke on my putts, and chips. I use the Paul Runyon method where he has the heel of the chipping club off the the turf because he holds the iron like he does the putter. I started using this grip/stroke several years ago, and never looked back. Another plus is that when you are practicing one, you are also practicing the other, since they are pretty much the same. With different chipping distances, I use different clubs. 6i to even a LW in some instances.  You can google his videos if you like. 

I have also been messing around with this stroke (longer) for shorter pitch shots. It' promising but I am not where I want to be with it. 

[craps]

It has been demonstrated that the best putters do not accelerate the putter head through impact, but actually employ more of a pendulum action which I believe reaches greatest velocity a bit before impact. http://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/74295-putting-do-not-accelerate-through-the-ball/

My question is: is the best chipping stroke the same, at least regarding the pendulum action? I know there are differences in chipping and putting (good putting strokes have a slight positive angle of attack, while chipping strokes have a slight negative angle of attack), but regarding the tempo or velocity or pattern of the stroke, is chipping like putting in that it's better to have a pendulum action and not try to consciously accelerate through impact?

I've had a poor chipping year, and I'm looking to work on this in the off season, and I want to make sure I'm working on the right thing. Many instruction books say chipping and putting are the "same stroke" but I don't know if everyone agrees on this or whether anyone has studied it in the way putting strokes have been studied. Thanks in advance for all the replies!

The hardest chip is the one that you don't need a long back stroke. II solved this problelm by fully cocking both hands and hold them firm. Weight on front leg and rock your hands. Chip to 1/3 of the total distance. You will get pleasant results.

[ncarlsongolf]

The chipping stroke always needs to make sure there is acceleration through the ball, especially in longer grasses.  If you are slowing or hesitating it has a higher chance of getting caught or slowed by the grass.  The way you approach the shot with your grip and face angle are less important.  The weight being on your left side and hitting downward angle to the ball are more important along with the acceleration!

[iacas]

@Big Lex, it turns out that the best chippers are awfully similar regarding acceleration profiles for chipping in that they do tend to reach peak speed at or just before contact with the ball (even without the presence of a ball and grass to slow the clubhead down, that is).

But… I wouldn't describe it so much as a "pendulum." There's more going on there and too many chip or pitch shots use more than one primary lever. The putting stroke uses some wrist, too, but not much; the chipping and pitching strokes use more body turn, wrist hinging, elbow bending, etc.

[Tat14]

I don't know anything about the attack angles you mentioned. Never much thought about those topics. I can tell you that I use the same grip and stroke on my putts, and chips. I use the Paul Runyon method where he has the heel of the chipping club off the the turf because he holds the iron like he does the putter. I started using this grip/stroke several years ago, and never looked back. Another plus is that when you are practicing one, you are also practicing the other, since they are pretty much the same. With different chipping distances, I use different clubs. 6i to even a LW in some instances.  You can google his videos if you like.

I have also been messing around with this stroke (longer) for shorter pitch shots. It' promising but I am not where I want to be with it.

Every so often I do this too; such as very thick greenside rough. Call it the "toe-down" chip.

Same can work for pitching, but I call it the chicken-wing because it feels like the right elbow sticks out as it shouldn't.

Both of these work for me as emergency fixes if the regular short game swing motion is suffering yips, etc.

[Mike Boatright]

I don't where that's been proven but the best putters absolutely apply acceleration through impact. I'm a good chipper and I treat 9 yard chips like 100 yard swing I hings release have follow through and hold the finish which is nothing like putting.

Edited October 13, 2015 by Mike Boatright

[iacas]

I don't where that's been proven but the best putters absolutely apply acceleration through impact.

They do not. On this you are incorrect, as this is not an opinion but a fact.

This is also not the topic being discussed here, @Mike Boatright, so please stick to the topic.

[mvmac]

I've had a poor chipping year, and I'm looking to work on this in the off season, and I want to make sure I'm working on the right thing. Many instruction books say chipping and putting are the "same stroke" but I don't know if everyone agrees on this or whether anyone has studied it in the way putting strokes have been studied. Thanks in advance for all the replies!

Make sure to check this out.

 

[Big Lex]

Make sure to check this out.

 

Thanks very much! I was taught a technique like this by a pro many years ago.  He called it the Runyan  Method. I stopped using it because I would be indecisive about which club to use, and it didn't work as well for me from lies in the rough. This season I tried chipping with one club only (56* SW), varying the face angle just a little here and there. The idea was to simplify club selection and get the job done by learning "touch." I think I got a little better at judging distance this way, but I had more difficulty hitting it solid, so in the end distance control still wasn't good overall. IAW if I hit it solid, the distance would be good, but I hit lots of them thin or fat. I thin there is a lot of possibility for error in the standard chip method. The reason for asking the question was to see if there was something I could try, a swing idea, that would give me more consistently solid contact using standard technique. I  think maybe these last few weeks of the season, I will go back to the Runyan method and see if that helps. I think it's more tolerant of variations in the bottom of the swing arc than is the standard method. 

@Big Lex, it turns out that the best chippers are awfully similar regarding acceleration profiles for chipping in that they do tend to reach peak speed at or just before contact with the ball (even without the presence of a ball and grass to slow the clubhead down, that is).

But… I wouldn't describe it so much as a "pendulum." There's more going on there and too many chip or pitch shots use more than one primary lever. The putting stroke uses some wrist, too, but not much; the chipping and pitching strokes use more body turn, wrist hinging, elbow bending, etc.

Ok. But would it be correct to say that "accelerating through the ball" might be an idea which would lead to poor contact and distance control for chip shots? For the sake of discussion, assume we are talking about shots or 5-15 yards off clean fairway or fringe lies.

[iacas]

Ok. But would it be correct to say that "accelerating through the ball" might be an idea which would lead to poor contact and distance control for chip shots? For the sake of discussion, assume we are talking about shots or 5-15 yards off clean fairway or fringe lies.

For the same reasons, yes. It's easier to control clubhead speed when it's relatively constant - that much should make sense to anyone. But feel ain't real, so often players will still feel they're accelerating, and even if you try to accelerate and your club digs through a fair amount of grass it's going to slow down (unless you do so in a manner not typically seen hitting a chip shot).

Edited October 13, 2015 by iacas

[ncarlsongolf]

For the same reasons, yes. It's easier to control clubhead speed when it's relatively constant - that much should make sense to anyone. But feel ain't real, so often players will still feel they're accelerating, and even if you try to accelerate and your club digs through a fair amount of grass it's going to slow down (unless you do so in a manner not typically seen hitting a chip shot).

    @iacas This is the most important thing for anyone golfing to understand ever.  FEEL ISNT REAL   Teachers need to understand this when teaching and students need to understand this when accepting information. If students can accept that what they are feeling and what they "think" they are doing is not always congruent with what is actually happening.  This goes for all shots and swings.