Paris Terror Attacks

[Gunther]

On Thu Nov 19 2015 08:19:02 GMT-0600, RussUK said:

 

There have been many cases of refugees committing terrorist acts in the US.  

1.  Tsarnaev's in Boston.  

2. Among the 66 arrested in the US for their ISIS connection, a number of them were refugees.  

3.  Google Minneapolis Somali crime

Many others if you care to look.  You're unaware of them because the media you watch is not reporting it or obfuscating the stories to minimize the impact.  

Edited November 21, 2015 by Gunther

[newtogolf]

48 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Paris terrorists were neither Syrian nor refugees.  No refugees have committed terrorist acts in the US either.

Whats the basis for this level of fearmongering?

This is from CNN

Quote

One of the men who attacked Paris held an emergency passport or similar document, according to an unnamed French senator who was briefed by the French Ministry of the Interior. The senator told CNN the bomber falsely declared himself to be a Syrian named Ahmad al Muhammad, born on September 10, 1990, and was allowed to enter Greece on October 3. From there he moved to Macedonia, then Serbia and Croatia, where he registered in the Opatovac refugee camp, the lawmaker said. Eventually, he made his way to Paris, where he was one of three men who blew themselves up at the Stade de France.

I don't fear monger, I know first hand the death and destruction terrorists cause from 9/11.  I have no issue with refugees as long as all the necessary background checks are done to ensure none of the refugees entering the country are ISIS.  DHS acknowledges they do not have the information available to ensure the refugees aren't terrorists;

Quote

Smith asked the federal directors whether terrorists would be likely to use available federal programs to gain access to this country in order to commit terrorist acts.

The Director of the National Counterterrorism Center answered, “We have certainly seen terrorist groups talk about, think about, exactly what you are describing, Mr. Smith. Trying to use available programs to get people not only into the United States, but into western European countries as well. So we know that they aspire to do that.” He said he did not know if he could say that they would likely succeed.

Smith asked about the vetting process and noted that terrorist organizations would most likely have individuals come into the country who have not yet committed a crime or had “a public background,” or committed a terrorist act.

DHS Secretary Johnson answered the vetting question by saying that every alleged refugee is interviewed, and that they complete an application. Smith responded saying that you are then essentially relying upon the refugee who is filling out the application, and “you can’t go beyond that, so you are sorta having to take their word for it.”

During the hearing, Rep. Smith said another “red flag” was that the profile of these Syrian refugees does not meet the profile of the typical refugee family. He said these Syrian refugees are “young, single, males, as opposed to family members.”

DHS Secretary Johnson skirted Rep. Smith’s question by saying these men are embraced by people in their community. Johnson continued that he had seen the communities firsthand and “they tend to settle into communities that are very … that embrace them, that are very supportive,” and added these communities tend to be a “pretty tight-knit, supportive, community.”

Smith responded, “As I say, both the profile and the motive of terrorist organizations, and your admission that there is some risk involved, to me would persuade the administration to go slow, rather than fast, when it comes to admitting individuals who might do us harm.”

Smith added that both FBI Director Comey and Homeland Security Secretary Johnson admitted they do not currently have the ability to properly screen and conduct sufficient background checks on these refugees.

 

[Golfingdad]

44 minutes ago, Gunther said:

There have been many cases of refugees committing terrorist acts in the US.  

1.  Tsarnaev's in Boston.  

2. Among the 66 arrested in the US for their ISIS connection, a number of them were refugees.  

3.  Google Minneapolis Somali crime

Many others if you care to look.  You're unaware of them because the media you watch is not reporting it or obfuscating the stories to minimize the impact.  

Tourist visas, as were learning, are not at all the same or nearly as hard to get as refugee status.  (Same with student visas, which were the 9/11 terrorists preferred form of entry). It's a 24 month vetting process to get refugee status.

On a related side note, I find it odd how concerned so many are for the lives of those who may be killed by future foreign terrorists but at the same time shrug and look the other way at the lives lost at the hands of American terrorists. I don't understand how the nationality or religious affiliation of the one pulling the trigger should matter.

[newtogolf]

13 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

On a related side note, I find it odd how concerned so many are for the lives of those who may be killed by future foreign terrorists but at the same time shrug and look the other way at the lives lost at the hands of American terrorists. I don't understand how the nationality or religious affiliation of the one pulling the trigger should matter.

I don't want to see any lives lost to terrorist, regardless of their citizenship or religious affiliation.

I don't understand your point, tell us how to identify the American terrorists and we will push to have them arrested.  The democrats voted against a republican sponsored bill to remove citizenship rights to any US citizen that joins ISIS or other terrorist organizations so tell us what else we can do?

In the case of foreign terrorists, why should we risk taking in terrorists amongst the refugees when we already have so many people in this country in need, most importantly our veterans?

[Gunther]

42 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Tourist visas, as were learning, are not at all the same or nearly as hard to get as refugee status.  (Same with student visas, which were the 9/11 terrorists preferred form of entry). It's a 24 month vetting process to get refugee status.

On a related side note, I find it odd how concerned so many are for the lives of those who may be killed by future foreign terrorists but at the same time shrug and look the other way at the lives lost at the hands of American terrorists. I don't understand how the nationality or religious affiliation of the one pulling the trigger should matter.

You confidently said there have been 0 terrorist attacks by refugees in the US.  I cited some cases which clearly refute that.  What does this have to do with that?

You are not informed on this topic because you're listening to liars in govt and media.  Many, many refugee cases are fast-tracked, indeed most.

No idea what you're talking about in your next paragraph.  I'd call the Ferguson and Baltimore uprisings American terrorists and I was very vocal against them.

No idea what your post means.  You confidently stated that 0 terrorist attacks had been committed by refugees, I cited a few cases, and there are more.  Now you're talking about tourist visas vs. refugee status?  What am I missing.  FYI, you are wrong about the 24-month period.  That is written policy but many refugees are fast-tracked...many.

In terms of American terrorists, again, smh.  I'd say the Ferguson and Baltimore riots were perpetrated by American terrorists and I was quite vocal about them.

[Golfingdad]

13 minutes ago, Gunther said:

No idea what your post means.  You confidently stated that 0 terrorist attacks had been committed by refugees, I cited a few cases, and there are more.  Now you're talking about tourist visas vs. refugee status?  What am I missing.  FYI, you are wrong about the 24-month period.  That is written policy but many refugees are fast-tracked...many.

In terms of American terrorists, again, smh.  I'd say the Ferguson and Baltimore riots were perpetrated by American terrorists and I was quite vocal about them.

Boston bombers families came here on tourist visas not as refugees.

And as far as American terrorists, I was referring more to sandy hook, aurora, Oregon and the like.  For many, the amount of lives lost weren't enough to warrant any serious discussion on a solution but this refugee red herring pops up and those same people have all the answers.

[newtogolf]

27 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Boston bombers families came here on tourist visas not as refugees.

And as far as American terrorists, I was referring more to sandy hook, aurora, Oregon and the like.  For many, the amount of lives lost weren't enough to warrant any serious discussion on a solution but this refugee red herring pops up and those same people have all the answers.

Sandy Hook, Oregon and Aurora weren't classified as terrorist attacks, they were mass shootings by psychotic individuals.  There wasn't any religious or political motivations, they simply were sick individuals who wanted to hurt people.

Are you suggesting we revoke citizenship to all citizens that are schizophrenic or clinically depressed because that is what this discussion is about?

[phillyk]

I keep thinking to myself that this crisis concerning ISIS sounds like batman. Bruce became a symbol/idea because he couldn't fight crime as a man.  Kind of opposite of that but, we are fighting a symbol, not a person or group of people.  Ex.: Hitler was a powerful symbol, Nazi.  Although greatly diminished, that nazi symbol is still used across the world even though Hitler and the other leaders of this symbol are long gone.

The same is happening now.  Although, it is on a bigger scale.  We are fighting radical Islam, or the idea that anybody not of their party should die (something like that anyway).  We can take out their leaders, recruitment centers, anything related to that idea, and the people who support it will eventually diminish.  BUT, the idea will survive for a long time, with some population of supporters.

In terms of accepting refugees, I will let them decide whether they want to make the trek over the ocean to get here.  We have some measures in place to try and protect us (not sure how much it would help).   But, I want them to decide to come here though, not be forced into it.  And seriously though, the world already hears about America having guns everywhere.  How many truly want to come to America right now?  If they truly want to and can pass the checkpoints, come on in and make yourself useful!

[CoachB25]

Per citizenship, both Robert E. Lee and Jefferson Davis were stripped of citizenship after the Civil War.  Some have argued that he only lost his right to vote but several books suggest it was total citizenship.  On January 30, 1975, Lee was granted, "full rights of citizenship" again.