Jump to content
Check out the Spin Axis Podcast! ×
Note: This thread is 3863 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Posted
1 hour ago, Gator Hazard said:

I don't agree that they would have consulted.  That is kind of like the when seconds matter the police are minutes away.  You don't consult when a war plane is circling over one of your cities or villages, you engage.

What if, and I am not going on a limb here, Turkey doesn't like seeing ISIS destroyed by Russia. Now you've got a NATO nation that supports a terrorist organization that supports the destruction of other NATO nations. This can get complicated really quickly. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

It seems like a chess game initiated by Pootin. Turkey called his bluff.   Now, what?   If there is going to be a WW III, I'd like to see it against ISIS/Al Qaeda and all its variants against the rest for the world, not Russian empire vs NATO.   

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 minute ago, rkim291968 said:

It seems like a chess game initiated by Pootin. Turkey called his bluff.   Now, what?   If there is going to be a WW III, I'd like to see it against ISIS/Al Qaeda and all its variants against the rest for the world, not Russian empire vs NATO.   

Agreed, why have we not joined forces with Russia to fight ISIS? 

Turkey may have just chosen sides in the fight against terror. Would we dump Turkey to fight ISIS with Russia? I hope so. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
7 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Agreed, why have we not joined forces with Russia to fight ISIS? 

Turkey may have just chosen sides in the fight against terror. Would we dump Turkey to fight ISIS with Russia? I hope so. 

Russia never intended to fight against ISIS.   They jumped in to help Asad's army fight against the insurgents.   They were bombing ISIS as a token gesture.   All this may have changed after ISIS downed a Russian plane.   That's why US didn't join with Russia - couldn't, b/c Russians were not fighting ISIS at the time. 

ISIS made a mistake downing a Russian plane but, hey, they are crazy.

Now, things have changed and it is time for the entire world (Iran, Russia, Western world, Arab worlds, ...) to fight against the evils. Easier said than done.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
3 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Agreed, why have we not joined forces with Russia to fight ISIS? 

Turkey may have just chosen sides in the fight against terror. Would we dump Turkey to fight ISIS with Russia? I hope so. 

Russia is in Syria to prop up the Assad government against all the rebels..  It doesn't really care if it is ISIS or the united front against Assad or anyone else..  The US won't be joining Russia because they are not there to support Assad, but rather support the rebels who they believe are fighting both Assad and ISIS..  

Turkey would be instrumental in any ground invasion, so I wouldn't put my hopes up on NATO turning its back on Turkey.

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

@Braivo, I believe this dance that Russia & Turkey is doing is a lot more complex than what it seems.   Their interest in that region is in conflict as with all other participants. 

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
46 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Russia is in Syria to prop up the Assad government against all the rebels..  It doesn't really care if it is ISIS or the united front against Assad or anyone else..  The US won't be joining Russia because they are not there to support Assad, but rather support the rebels who they believe are fighting both Assad and ISIS..

Turkey would be instrumental in any ground invasion, so I wouldn't put my hopes up on NATO turning its back on Turkey.

Exactly, but at one point ISIS were the rebels in 2012 the US and NATO supported, so we have no idea who the current rebels will be and whose side they will be on in 3 years.

Joe Paradiso

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
3 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Exactly, but at one point ISIS were the rebels in 2012 the US and NATO supported, so we have no idea who the current rebels will be and whose side they will be on in 3 years.

I have to disagree on this.. ISIS were never the rebels the US was supporting.. The freedom front or what ever they call them selves are actually still fighting against ISIS..

The first complaint that was put by the US when Russia started bombing was hey you are attacking the guys we are supporting... 

Infact the latest news is that the US special forces are being deployed soon to get all the rag tag fighting forces to start working together and training them to fight both ISIS and the Assad forces..

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
8 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

I have to disagree on this.. ISIS were never the rebels the US was supporting.. The freedom front or what ever they call them selves are actually still fighting against ISIS..

The first complaint that was put by the US when Russia started bombing was hey you are attacking the guys we are supporting... 

Infact the latest news is that the US special forces are being deployed soon to get all the rag tag fighting forces to start working together and training them to fight both ISIS and the Assad forces..

+1.   And the rag tag fight forces?   Getting them to agree on anything will be victory in itself. 

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 hour ago, Braivo said:

What if, and I am not going on a limb here, Turkey doesn't like seeing ISIS destroyed by Russia. Now you've got a NATO nation that supports a terrorist organization that supports the destruction of other NATO nations. This can get complicated really quickly. 

No doubt it can but what Turkey did in my mind was pretty cut and dried and clear, they protected their airspace.  The repercussions could be very complicated but the act of defending their nation was simple and justified.

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
2 minutes ago, Gator Hazard said:

No doubt it can but what Turkey did in my mind was pretty cut and dried and clear, they protected their airspace.  The repercussions could be very complicated but the act of defending their nation was simple and justified.

... but the plane was shut down in Syria.   I bet Pootin will use the fact.

RiCK

(Play it again, Sam)

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

... but the plane was shut down in Syria.   I bet Pootin will use the fact.

I am not sure of that yet, they were very close to the border, right now it is a he said she said.  Turkey has said the plane entered their airspace multiple times and was flying over one of their cities.  Just because they crashed in Syria doesn't mean the missile was not launched in Turkey at an object that was in Turkey and got close to the border when it hit, and then crashed into Syria.  The crash was 2.5 miles from Turkish border, aeronautically that is not far.  

Edited by Gator Hazard
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
7 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

+1.   And the rag tag fight forces?   Getting them to agree on anything will be victory in itself. 

That's the funny thing, because there are so many of them.. There is one big coalition with its self proclaimed leaders living abroad waiting to rule the country if Assad ever falls, but then there are 3 or 4 other significant forces not giving their allegiance to that coalition and fighting for their life.  It will be hard to unite them.

IMO Assad has got to go, the guy has so much blood on his hands it's not even funny.. But this main coalition is also looked at as a puppet of the west, and it will be hard to get the buy in of the other rebels without a piece of the pie promised to them.    

The real problem will be when ISIS starts controlling land and provides basics like water and electricity and food ect to the people.. In the end that's what resonates with people who are cut off from the rest of the world with bombs dropping all day and night around them. It's a fight against time first and foremost.

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
28 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

I have to disagree on this.. ISIS were never the rebels the US was supporting.. The freedom front or what ever they call them selves are actually still fighting against ISIS..

The first complaint that was put by the US when Russia started bombing was hey you are attacking the guys we are supporting...

Infact the latest news is that the US special forces are being deployed soon to get all the rag tag fighting forces to start working together and training them to fight both ISIS and the Assad forces..

My understanding is that in 2012 the major forces within Syria were the Assad, Salafist (an ultra-conservative orthodox movement within Sunni Islam that is now known as ISIS), the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda Iraq (AQI).

Russia, China and Iran were supporting the Assad while the US and NATO supported the opposition.

The DOD decided that within the collective opposition there was the potential for a Salafist principality that would help isolate the Syrian regime and that is who we felt at the time was the best group of the opposition to support. 

Joe Paradiso

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
53 minutes ago, rkim291968 said:

@Braivo, I believe this dance that Russia & Turkey is doing is a lot more complex than what it seems.   Their interest in that region is in conflict as with all other participants. 

Turkish President: "We have kinsmen in the area that are being bombed."

News reports now say the Russian jet crossed into Turkish airspace for a few seconds at most. 

It is clear Turkey had their fingers on the trigger waiting for any chance to help their "kinsmen" across the border. Careful about these guys being a NATO ally. 

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 minute ago, Braivo said:

Turkish President: "We have kinsmen in the area that are being bombed."

News reports now say the Russian jet crossed into Turkish airspace for a few seconds at most. 

It is clear Turkey had their fingers on the trigger waiting for any chance to help their "kinsmen" across the border. Careful about these guys being a NATO ally. 

I still am of the thought that Russia likes to play these games; they can't expect to have a perfect record doing so.  If you are going to dart back and forth across someones border multiple times and have been warned multiple times eventually something like this is going to happen.  

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
21 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

My understanding is that in 2012 the major forces within Syria were the Assad, Salafist (an ultra-conservative orthodox movement within Sunni Islam that is now known as ISIS), the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda Iraq (AQI).

Russia, China and Iran were supporting the Assad while the US and NATO supported the opposition.

The DOD decided that within the collective opposition there was the potential for a Salafist principality that would help isolate the Syrian regime and that is who we felt at the time was the best group of the opposition to support. 

I'm not sure where you get this information from, the salafists?  The people on the ground were mostly regular people and the soldiers who split from the army when the Assad government started killing the peaceful protesters.  Later on maybe other groups started forming and calling themselves different names, and eventually ISIS started sending generals and soldiers into Syria after taking swaths of land.

Just a quick search on google and you can get a good idea of who the coalition is made up of and it doesn't mention the word salafists.

"A broader opposition umbrella group, the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, was formed in November 2012 and has gained recognition as the "legitimate representative of the Syrian people" by the Cooperation Council for the Arab States of the Gulf (CCASG) and as a "representative of aspirations of Syrian people" by the Arab League.[11] The Syrian National Coalition was subsequently given the seat of Syria in the Arab League, with Ba'athist Syria representative suspended"

 

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
1 minute ago, Gator Hazard said:

I still am of the thought that Russia likes to play these games; they can't expect to have a perfect record doing so.  If you are going to dart back and forth across someones border multiple times and have been warned multiple times eventually something like this is going to happen.  

I don't disagree with this. Russia is playing games for sure.

The disturbing part for me is Turkey, a supposed NATO ally, doesn't seem to keen on fighting our greatest enemy - ISIS. The first chance to engage and help them and they did. This was not "self-defense" because everyone in their right mind knows Russia was not going to attach Turkey unprovoked. 

Also, they just "cut the corner" over Turkish airspace. lol. 

 

 

Capture.JPG

- Mark

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 3863 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    Carl's Place
    PlayBetter
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FitForGolf
    FlightScope Mevo

    Coupon Codes (save 10-20%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack/FitForGolf, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope. 15% off TourStriker (no code).
  • Posts

    • I have been debating getting a launch monitor of some sort, if only so I can re-figure my shot zones (I haven't actually mapped them in years) and also to practice distance wedges at home.  I have to see if this works with either my current setup, or what my setup would be if I move it to the garage.  
    • Day 48, June 23.  After work today, I took 25 minutes in my practice room;  6-iron, same everything as yesterday except the time and count. 
    • Well, this is interesting.  I think we discovered a few months ago that I haven't been following professional golf in a while (my confusion about Scotty's footwork confirmed that), so at least as I aim to follow a bit more I'll get something new to learn with all of you.  My very quick read of Erik's summary makes me think this new Challenger series fits somewhere between Korn Ferry and the Championship (not Champions, but I know I'm going to make that mistake a few times if I'm not careful!).   My recollection is that there were already second-tier events among the PGA Tour;  the Bob Hope didn't have the same quality of field as the event at Riviera (whose current name I forget, although now that I say that, I realize the Palm Springs event hasn't been called the Bob Hope in a few years either).   With the absence of the FedEx (if I'm reading that correctly), does that mean no more FedEx Cup at all? Hopefully I'll have time later in 2026 to sit down and see what we're in for in 2027, where one of my goals already is to follow more professional golf.
    • The highlights as I see them: Championship and Challenger Series The creation of the PGA Tour and the PGB Tour, in the words of Joel Dahmen a few years ago. They're calling them the Championship Series (23-24 events) and the Challenger Series (20+ events). Both run February to August. They feel this will achieve three things: increasing the consistency and quality of fields across the season creating a clear system for players to earn and retain status and delivering a more structured and competitive experience for fans and partners—all in an effort to strengthen meritocracy. Championship Series Structure and Eligibility The 23-24 events includes the Players, majors, season-ending events, and the Presidents Cup and Ryder Cup. These will be 72-hole events with a 36-hole cut to the top 65 and ties and purses of $20M+. 120 players without an alternate list. 90 players (roughly) from the previous year and 20 players promoted from the Challenger Series. Full eligibility will be finalized later this year. Sites (cities) to be finalized soon, but 10 of the 15 courses have already been determined. Postseason: includes retention and relegation and concludes with match play. The Tour Championship will also be played across a rotation of prestigious courses. Challenger Series Structure and Eligibility 20+ events. Running concurrently. Will feature players fighting their way back to the Championship Series or players graduating and on the upswing from the Korn Ferry Tour. Many of these events will be current PGA Tour courses. About 7 of the Challenger Series events will be during off weeks for the Championship Series with elevated purses and visibility. Purses of at least $4M, with cuts similar to the Champ series. 144 player fields. Competitive Fields for Both Series Players will be eligible for only one series at a time: Championship Series Players are not eligible for Challenger Series events. Championship Series members will have a known schedule with all events having the same eligibility. Players and Majors will have their own eligibility criteria. Championship Series players don't have to play all events. This begs the question about, say, the Canadian Open, and other "home-town" events that players might want to play, even if they're Challenger Series events. Will releases be granted? Promotion and Relegation At least 90 players will be retained in the Championship Series, and 20 players will be promoted from the Challenger Series each year. Battlefield promotion for two-time winners from the Challenger Series. Players relegated from the Championship Series will have a "last chance" opportunity to retain status, or will go to the Challenger Series. Criteria will be finalized before the start of the 2027 season. Points System New points system (not FedExCup points). Separate points systems for the Championship and Challenger Series. Elevated points in the Challenger Series for off-weeks on the Championship Series. More details tk. Elevated International Events in the Fall The fall schedule will include a limited series of elevated international events with top players from the Championship Series, with the intent to deliver in partnership with the DP World Tour as part of the Strategic Alliance. Last Chance Series The Tour will develop a “last chance” series of 4-6 events in the fall, with a limited number of spots on the Championship Series available for top finishers. Eligibility will include players relegated from the Championship Series, Challenger Series players, and other categories to be determined. Q-School continues, as do the Korn Ferry Tour and PGA Tour Latinoamerica. Also, Brian Rolapp is the new commissioner as of January 1, 2027.
    • You can download the PDF at this link or see the first page of it above.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.