Why Isn't It OK To Drive Your Push Carts or Trolleys Through The Green?

[Golfingdad]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

It's not case closed.

Both Clicgear carts. I would do more damage pulling these through the rough and flattening the longer grass than I do over firm to normal greens. 

No, I know.  I was being a bit facetious there.  Saying that picture is proof that carts shouldn't be allowed on the greens would be akin to posting a picture of a green damaged by somebody dragging their feet and saying walking should be forbidden.

Whatever that person was doing specifically to make those tracks, it too narrow wheels, running, carrying enough balls in his bag to make it weigh 300 pounds, whatever, is obviously a no-no though.

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

I stand by the point that you often do more damage flattening rough than you do to a putting green… which is why superintendents and pros like people to take their push carts well around the greenside bunkers, too, and stay well away from the greens: because they flatten the rough where the delicate short game shots are hit.

Great point.

 

On 1/3/2016 at 7:23 PM, uitar9 said:

One thing I always find interesting is the business of not walking on someone 's lie.

If I play a heavily played course, starting say at 2 oclock in the pm there's probably been a couple hundred folks stomping all over the greens. Much more concentrated weight. Ball marks everywhere.

Similar to this, I've frequently chuckled to myself when pondering how sacred we are about not stepping in other peoples lines when you consider that pretty much every golfer in every group in front of us that day has already stepped in all of our putting lines. :)  Found this by accident when searching for a picture to accompany a thought up above.  Suppsoedly the tracks of a typical foursome on a typical hole:

This is part of the reason why I never get bent out of shape if somebody inadvertently steps in my line.  And that brings me too a somewhat off-topic pet peeve:

Raise your hand if you ever do this ... hit your lag putt such that you have to either walk around somebody else or cut through their line to go mark your ball or putt out.  To save time you choose to cut through and out of "courtesy" to avoid stepping on their line, you jump over it?  I know its a lot of you because it happens to me all of the time.  If you do this, I would like to respectfully request that you never do it again.  Just gingerly walk through my line please.  You're almost never going to leave a mark with a small footstep, but you are almost always going to leave one with that jump, and you never seem to be able to guess right where my line is, such that you are always landing right in it!!  Rant over. ;)

[Lihu]

16 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

This is part of the reason why I never get bent out of shape if somebody inadvertently steps in my line.  And that brings me too a somewhat off-topic pet peeve:

 

Raise your hand if you ever do this ... hit your lag putt such that you have to either walk around somebody else or cut through their line to go mark your ball or putt out.  To save time you choose to cut through and out of "courtesy" to avoid stepping on their line, you jump over it?  I know its a lot of you because it happens to me all of the time.  If you do this, I would like to respectfully request that you never do it again.  Just gingerly walk through my line please.  You're almost never going to leave a mark with a small footstep, but you are almost always going to leave one with that jump, and you never seem to be able to guess right where my line is, such that you are always landing right in it!!  Rant over. ;)

Yeah, the walking gingerly thing is pretty much all you can do. Hopping seems bad partly because you are assuming that they are going to use the same line you guessed they would, and partly because you probably do a lot more damage to the green than normal walking.

[No Mulligans]

13 hours ago, Club Rat said:

Here's Three good reasons..... "Center, Left and Right Wheels"

Took this photo today just for this topic. I tried rolling a ball down the rut to see how far it would travel in the rut. It stayed in the rut until it stopped. The outside wheels created a rut about 3/8" deep into the green. When I putted across the ruts, the ball hopped about 3" upward.

 

I'll be danged, I've never seen that.  Was there any foot damage also?  Hard to tell from the picture, but I think I see some.  Regardless, no carts on soft greens.

[Club Rat]

1 hour ago, No Mulligans said:

Was there any foot damage also?

No, foot prints. This area is the front of the green which retains moisture longer due to the slope design. The ruts seemed to be less in the middle to back corner where the player walked to the next hole, but still noticeable.

 

[jsgolfer]

On 12/31/2015 at 7:08 AM, mchepp said:

There are places like Bandon Dunes (@Golfingdad you need to plan your trip) where due to the massive green sizes they recommend you drive your trolley through/on the green. There is no negative effect from doing this on the putting surfaces. So some places design for it. 

At my home club they not only say no trolleys on the green but none even on the grass between the bunkers and the green. Means sometimes pushing the trolley quite some distance away from the pin/green to get the trolley near the next tee.

At our home club we still play pretty fast so not sure either way has any effect on pace of play. 

Great topic, as I both carry and use a push cart depending on how my back is feeling.  My club also has the no carts on the greens or between the traps and the greens.  Which I haven't figured out why that would be such a big deal.  The push cart definitely weighs a lot less than a mower.  So there are times when you have to push the cart quite a bit of extra distance if you don't go between the trap and the green.

 

On 1/1/2016 at 3:05 PM, colin007 said:

I used to walk across the green while carrying my bag when I used to carry.

I got yelled at once for bringing my pushcart into a tee box. I looked around at all the divots on the tee and then back to my pushcart and said "Are you being serious??"

I haven't brought the cart onto the tee, but have been yelled at for setting my stand bag on the tee before which I'm not sure is that much of a detriment to the teeing surface.  Anymore so than the divots and general walking traffic over it.

On 1/2/2016 at 0:02 PM, iacas said:

Occasionally, but since I started playing golf with spikes, the less you had to walk on the green, the better off everyone was, so I still mostly avoid the green surface just out of habit.

I weigh a lot less even with my bag than others playing golf, and my shoes barely even have nubs on them let alone even soft cleats. So if I do walk across the green… it's not a big deal.

I'm with iacas, I generally try to avoid walking over the green when carrying my bag and stay to the edges, but there are times when I do depending on where the next hole is in relation to where I'm on the green.  

On 1/4/2016 at 11:41 PM, Club Rat said:

Here's Three good reasons..... "Center, Left and Right Wheels"

Took this photo today just for this topic. I tried rolling a ball down the rut to see how far it would travel in the rut. It stayed in the rut until it stopped. The outside wheels created a rut about 3/8" deep into the green. When I putted across the ruts, the ball hopped about 3" upward.

 

I wonder what kind of push cart this was from, those wheel tracks look awful narrow.

20 hours ago, iacas said:

It's not case closed.

Both Clicgear carts. I would do more damage pulling these through the rough and flattening the longer grass than I do over firm to normal greens. 

So many carts now are coming with 4 wheels, I would say the case isn't closed.  I think it's more that American golfers have been ingrained to be against something like this, so not sure this will change in my lifetime for most courses.  Chambers Bay not withstanding.

Again, great topic Golfindad!

 

[caniac6]

The pro caddies carry those staff bags across greens and lay them on the collars. They also put the bags on the tees. I have a turf degree, and I never understood the reasoning behind keeping pushcarts away from the area between the greens and bunkers. This time of year, there is typically freezing and thawing of green surfaces which leads to soft, uneven greens. The footprints are very noticeable, and wheels will mark greens like in  the picture posted earlier. Bentgrass greens in the south and mid atlantic are usually soft in the summer and carts would damage the greens. Some of the new bermuda and zoysia greens are so firm that a full wedge hardly makes a ballmark. I would think a push cart across those greens wouldn't do any harm.

[dak4n6]

I have seen where people have pushed their carts over a green, and I always observed that the blades of grass are a bit flattened (which is what allows you to see the tracks) but the surface is not indented like the multiple 1/4" deep craters left by aggressive soft spikes like Addi Zeros (I own a pair - sorry, I didn't know when I bought them).

[ay33660]

As others have pointed out Bandon Dunes and Chambers Bay encourage you to pull your cart across the greens but you are not allowed to park on the greens.

Actually I will be pulling my cart across the greens at Bandon Dunes in a couple of weeks.

I will take some pictures.

Case closed ????????

[natureboy]

13 hours ago, caniac6 said:

I never understood the reasoning behind keeping pushcarts away from the area between the greens and bunkers.

I suspect issue was raised by someone who hates being in bunkers and wants to protect that bit of rough that might save a trickler off the green from dropping in.

[Lihu]

13 hours ago, ay33660 said:

As others have pointed out Bandon Dunes and Chambers Bay encourage you to pull your cart across the greens but you are not allowed to park on the greens.

Actually I will be pulling my cart across the greens at Bandon Dunes in a couple of weeks.

I will take some pictures.

Case closed ????????

Are PNW conditions are dry this time of year? People pay a lot to play Bandon, I don't understand why they let people roll over the greens?

[No Mulligans]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Are PNW conditions are dry this time of year? People pay a lot to play Bandon, I don't understand why they let people roll over the greens?

Because they don't do any damage to their greens.  Some say they are actually good for the greens.  Did you read the articles posted early in this thread?  The greens don't look like they've suffered at all.

If you go to Bandon bring your rain gear.  A lot of the rounds there are played in the rain.

 

[Lihu]

54 minutes ago, No Mulligans said:

Because they don't do any damage to their greens.  Some say they are actually good for the greens.  Did you read the articles posted early in this thread?  The greens don't look like they've suffered at all.

If you go to Bandon bring your rain gear.  A lot of the rounds there are played in the rain.

I've played there, and the greens were soft at the time I went. Yes, I read the articles posted along with many other ones on this subject after googling it some more. . .

Bad idea in my mind, and in fact, I am going to be much more careful anywhere around the greens.

[ay33660]

14 hours ago, No Mulligans said:

Because they don't do any damage to their greens.  Some say they are actually good for the greens.  Did you read the articles posted early in this thread?  The greens don't look like they've suffered at all.

If you go to Bandon bring your rain gear.  A lot of the rounds there are played in the rain.

I am from Vancouver so the rain is a normality for us at least 6 months of the year.

I have three sets of rain gear. My current favorite is my Galvin Green Gore-Tex Angus jacket and Alf pants. I also have a set of Sunice Gore-Tex Ultimate V7 jacket and Narooma pants. Due to my combination of big gut and short legs the Narooma pants don't fit me as well as the Alf pants because of the multiple combination of waist and inseam sizes available in the Alf. Finally I have a set of FootJoy Dryjoys. FootJoy claims their Dryjoys are as good as Gore-Tex .... they are NOT.

Sorry got off topic.

Anyways the pros in the shop at Bandon encourage you to roll your cart across the greens. Somehow they help them? I am not an agronomist so I don't know. I suspect that it has to do with the fact the course is built on sand dunes.

 

Edited January 7, 2016 by ay33660