Par differential

[stealthhwk]

Hey guys and gals! This might be a fun one...what do you suppose should be the scoring difference for golf courses with oddball pars? IE; Course I play from time to time in the Colony is a par 66. Does that mean I should shoot six strokes better there than I do on a par 72 course or is it more complicated than that? What are your thoughts and experiences when playing courses with a par less than 70?

[SavvySwede]

Course Rating and slope already take care of this sort of thing.

[vangator]

8 hours ago, SavvySwede said:

Course Rating and slope already take care of this sort of thing.

Party pooper.

[bkuehn1952]

Some oddball par courses are rated and others not.  As SavvySwede said, for those courses which are rated, it is a simple computation.

I play a par 67 course early & late in the season.  Rated 64.1/115.  To shoot my handicap there I need around a 74-75.  It is fairly easy to "break 80".  Not so easy to break 75.

I believe as long as a course hits 3,000 yards (18) it can be rated.

[Club Rat]

10 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

Does that mean I should shoot six strokes better

Every golf course is different in many matters which make them unique. The objective is test players skills to attempt to make par on every hole.

What may be an easy par for some may be a difficult par for others.

So basically, could you play "six strokes better" on other courses? Possibly yes and no. There are courses which you may better or worse for many reasons.

 

[vangator]

10 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

Hey guys and gals! This might be a fun one...what do you suppose should be the scoring difference for golf courses with oddball pars? IE; Course I play from time to time in the Colony is a par 66. Does that mean I should shoot six strokes better there than I do on a par 72 course or is it more complicated than that? What are your thoughts and experiences when playing courses with a par less than 70?

The simple answer is yes.  Ratings for course usually hover pretty near their par number.  Easier courses may be a few less.  Really tough courses a few more.  The slope rating is their for HCP calculation.  Watch out for those par 72 courses with a par rating of 77!   Bring a few extra balls.

[paininthenuts]

My local course is a par 74. It even has a par 4 475 yards hole, that even the pro can't reach during the winter. Unless you are a real slogger (which I am not) you will never get a low handicap.

[Lihu]

On March 8, 2016 at 7:21 PM, stealthhwk said:

Hey guys and gals! This might be a fun one...what do you suppose should be the scoring difference for golf courses with oddball pars? IE; Course I play from time to time in the Colony is a par 66. Does that mean I should shoot six strokes better there than I do on a par 72 course or is it more complicated than that? What are your thoughts and experiences when playing courses with a par less than 70?

It's distance based. So, you should score 6 strokes better, provided you make wise decisions.

This is a big reason to tee it forward to your ability. Doesn't matter how far you think you drive the ball, tee up based upon handicap. It'll improve your score.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, paininthenuts said:

My local course is a par 74. It even has a par 4 475 yards hole, that even the pro can't reach during the winter. Unless you are a real slogger (which I am not) you will never get a low handicap.

As was already mentioned - par is not relevant to handicap so the specifics of your course would already be accounted for in its rating.

[allenc]

As others have said, the stock answer is that rating and slope take care of this.  That being said, I often play a course down the road that is a par 64 with a 60.5 rating and 89 slope.  For me, playing this course a lot is great for (unintentionally) sandbagging on full length course.  My handicap has gone up 2-3 strokes without feeling I am playing much worse.

The holes are definitely shorter than normal and a lot of the time you can go for the green easily despite wayward tee shots and there are few water hazards or OBs.  However, this is compensated somewhat by the fact that the greens are small and lumpy and often have lots of unfixed injuries.  I three putt and miss short putts more often here than anywhere.  There are lots of difficult lies around the greens such as bare patches surrounded by grass and the ball often settles there.  I don't think the rating weights this stuff proportionally to the distance.

Also, you have to shoot 6 over just to play to a 12 for instance.  As a 12 index it just seems hard to shoot par after par like that with no double bogies allowed.  I have managed better a couple times though with a score in the 60s so that part is fun.  Count me in the "broke 70" club!

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, Golfingdad said:

3 hours ago, paininthenuts said:

My local course is a par 74. It even has a par 4 475 yards hole, that even the pro can't reach during the winter. Unless you are a real slogger (which I am not) you will never get a low handicap.

As was already mentioned - par is not relevant to handicap so the specifics of your course would already be accounted for in its rating.

Just to clarify, this means you should be able to get a low handicap no matter where you play as long as there is a course rating. Your raw score is much higher, but the differential will even that out.

For instance, we also have par 74 in our area, but I expect to shoot about 4.8 strokes worse than on my usual course as the CR is 76.8 assuming I was dumb enough to play from the tips. South Course. http://www.losserranoscountryclub.com/scorecard/

BTW, I'm sure pros can reach a 475 yard par 4 in 2 shots in winter temperatures under what are otherwise normal playing conditions wet or dry (They carry driver 269, 3W 243 and Hybrid 225 on average). Even my home course from the blue tees (not even the longest tees) has a 471 yard par 4 that most people need a 3W to reach. If anyone can't reach it with a 3W even in winter temperatures, they should be playing up.

[Golfingdad]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Just to clarify, this means you should be able to get a low handicap no matter where you play as long as there is a course rating. Your raw score is much higher, but the differential will even that out.

For instance, we also have par 74 in our area, but I expect to shoot about 4.8 strokes worse than on my usual course as the CR is 76.8 assuming I was dumb enough to play from the tips. South Course. http://www.losserranoscountryclub.com/scorecard/

BTW, I'm sure pros can reach a 475 yard par 4 in 2 shots in winter temperatures under what are otherwise normal playing conditions wet or dry (They carry driver 269, 3W 243 and Hybrid 225 on average). Even my home course from the blue tees (not even the longest tees) has a 471 yard par 4 that most people need a 3W to reach. If anyone can't reach it with a 3W even in winter temperatures, they should be playing up.

Right.  It's also different for everybody.  I have a similar issue as @allenc on my father-in-laws home course.  It's in a senior citizen community and is nice and short to keep the members happy.  The rating reflects that.  It's a par 71 or 70 (they have 3 nines) and the rating is 66 or 67 or something.  I shoot my handicap there a lot less often than other courses because it has smaller and quick greens, and other features to make it more challenging that factor in a lot less to the course rating and slope.

A long course like Los Serranos might very well help my handicap.  (I've only played it once, so I can't say for sure.  My only memory of that day is [unintentionally] skipping my second shot 3 wood across the pond on 18 )

[Lihu]

2 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

Right.  It's also different for everybody.  I have a similar issue as @allenc on my father-in-laws home course.  It's in a senior citizen community and is nice and short to keep the members happy.  The rating reflects that.  It's a par 71 or 70 (they have 3 nines) and the rating is 66 or 67 or something.  I shoot my handicap there a lot less often than other courses because it has smaller and quick greens, and other features to make it more challenging that factor in a lot less to the course rating and slope.

A long course like Los Serranos might very well help my handicap.  (I've only played it once, so I can't say for sure.  My only memory of that day is [unintentionally] skipping my second shot 3 wood across the pond on 18 )

Nice.

Yeah, I think playing courses that are shorter than you are able to play is worse for your handicap especially when they are setup for seniors who chip and putt like pros. That's why they setup your dad's course as they did, so their children can't out score them.

So, to the OP, maybe not 6 strokes but maybe 4 or 5 strokes better?

[stealthhwk]

While rating kinda makes sense to me. Slope doesnt, as Im not sharp enough to quantify the difference into an actual strokes difference so its all lost on me. Ive shot my three lowest numbers on this local par 66 course. That being said, it feels to me like one of the hardest of all the golf courses I play. While the distance is over 2000 yards shorter, the holes are all at least twice as hard. (Feels like it anyways) and the slope rating at this course is only like 8 points lower than the much longer courses I play. I guess thats what promoted the op.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, stealthhwk said:

While rating kinda makes sense to me. Slope doesnt, as Im not sharp enough to quantify the difference into an actual strokes difference so its all lost on me. Ive shot my three lowest numbers on this local par 66 course. That being said, it feels to me like one of the hardest of all the golf courses I play. While the distance is over 2000 yards shorter, the holes are all at least twice as hard. (Feels like it anyways) and the slope rating at this course is only like 8 points lower than the much longer courses I play. I guess thats what promoted the op.

The slope is just used to calculate the differentials:

http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Your-Golf-Handicap

 

If the holes are setup to be a short game nightmare, then that explains why the shorter course feels harder. If you are a longer hitter and you are accurate enough to take advantage of that length on the shorter course, do it. Then you can chip/pitch onto many of the greens if it is really 2000 yards shorter. BTW, 2000 yards shorter is huge, what are the lengths of all the courses you normally play?

 

[stealthhwk]

43 minutes ago, Lihu said:

The slope is just used to calculate the differentials:

http://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Your-Golf-Handicap

 

If the holes are setup to be a short game nightmare, then that explains why the shorter course feels harder. If you are a longer hitter and you are accurate enough to take advantage of that length on the shorter course, do it. Then you can chip/pitch onto many of the greens if it is really 2000 yards shorter. BTW, 2000 yards shorter is huge, what are the lengths of all the courses you normally play?

 

My bad, I was off. My normal courses are between 6000-6200 yards. This course is 1500 yards shorter, not the 2000 I had rolling around in my head. Still, if u take off 1500 yards I keep telling myself I should really be shooting much lower rounds on that course than my other courses I play. Yet, my scores are nearly identical. 

Edited March 9, 2016 by stealthhwk
Added stuff

[SavvySwede]

6 hours ago, Lihu said:

Just to clarify, this means you should be able to get a low handicap no matter where you play as long as there is a course rating. Your raw score is much higher, but the differential will even that out.

For instance, we also have par 74 in our area, but I expect to shoot about 4.8 strokes worse than on my usual course as the CR is 76.8 assuming I was dumb enough to play from the tips. South Course. http://www.losserranoscountryclub.com/scorecard/

BTW, I'm sure pros can reach a 475 yard par 4 in 2 shots in winter temperatures under what are otherwise normal playing conditions wet or dry (They carry driver 269, 3W 243 and Hybrid 225 on average). Even my home course from the blue tees (not even the longest tees) has a 471 yard par 4 that most people need a 3W to reach. If anyone can't reach it with a 3W even in winter temperatures, they should be playing up.

6 par 5's? sounds like my kind of golf course.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

My bad, I was off. My normal courses are between 6000-6200 yards. This course is 1500 yards shorter, not the 2000 I had rolling around in my head. Still, if u take off 1500 yards I keep telling myself I should really be shooting much lower rounds on that course than my other courses I play. Yet, my scores are nearly identical. 

The 4500 yard course is harder than your normal 6000 yard course? Wow, the greens must be little tiny patches on cleanly cut steep mounds? Or there are trees you need to hit over in the middle of every fairway.

Well, in any case, the 66 par should be roughly 6 strokes easier, and possibly even easier. We have a course Scholl Canyon which is pretty easy. Par is 60 and the CR is only 56/80 80 is the slope. If you choose the right clubs it is really easy.