Does Good with Driver mean Bad with Irons and Vice Versa?

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, gregsandiego said:

That leads me to a question. Say I put the ball an inch or so left for my 3 iron. Am I not consciously then trying to bottom the club out just a bit left of center?

Or instead does the club bottom out the same for every club and I just move the ball to match up with different points in the swing plane? 

I've been taught by instructors on this site and Evolvr to think of it more in terms of where the bottom of the swing is. If you look at yourself at set up and at impact, the low point is going to be somewhere under where your left armpit is when the club is in a straight line with your left arm. The picture below illustrates this with the red line. Makes sense because this is the full length of your left arm plus the full length of the club.

For irons, you want to hit it before the low point to get all ball just before the club head hits the turf (closer to the yellow line). The shaft will be leaning toward the target so in essence you are de-lofting the club. The further back the ball position from the red line, but more de-lofted the club face. This is what they are referring to for Pro golfers lowering the launch of wedges and short irons.

For long irons and woods, the angle of attack is less steep due to the longer shaft. Your divots generally are more shallow too. So you can move the ball a bit forward toward the red line because you are a bit less likely to catch it fat or more precisely for our HC, less likely to have a slightly heavy shot affect the impact of the swing.  So by moving it closer to our left heel, we have less shaft lean at impact and higher launch. 

For driver, you want to be hitting it after the low point so the angle of attack is positive. So the ball position should be at the left heel or even more forward than that.

Figuring out your low point is the critical part. For irons, just go to a grass range and see where the divot is compared to the ball. Put a tee in the grass to mark your ball position (on the opposite side of your stance) and swing normally. Do a few of these and you will see whether you are hitting ball before ground. 

You can do this with woods too, but they don't make as good a divot. Sometimes it's just easier to start with the ball at iron position, then move it a half ball at a time forward and try it there. I think you will find you can play it pretty far forward for a 3 or 5W and still make good contact.

Lastly, the driver is a bit tougher because you also have to figure out your angle of attack versus where in the swing circle your are hitting the ball. If you go too far forward, you make have gone past the in-to-out point and the head is now moving left along the circle. This can lead to some side spin. The best way to figure this out is on a launch monitor that also looks at the head position.

Last year I was struggling with the ball near my instep for the driver with misses both ways. When I tested the TaylorMade M1 driver for the review, it showed I was too far forward. I was getting a +4 deg angle of attack, but was also out to in at that point. So if the face was closed to path, I was getting a wicked hook. Face open to path, big slice. I tested moving the ball back to where the angle of attack was still positive (+05 to 1.0 deg), but the swing path was still slightly in-to-out still. I got much more consistent results after that. For me, that was just at my left heel (the middle of the ball was splitting the line made to my left heel).

I recommend spending some time doing this at the range. Don't do it all in one session, but focus on irons one time, woods the next. You will learn a lot about where the ball should be for your swing.

[gregsandiego]

6 hours ago, boogielicious said:

I've been taught by instructors on this site and Evolvr to think of it more in terms of where the bottom of the swing is. If you look at yourself at set up and at impact, the low point is going to be somewhere under where your left armpit is when the club is in a straight line with your left arm. The picture below illustrates this with the red line. Makes sense because this is the full length of your left arm plus the full length of the club.

For irons, you want to hit it before the low point to get all ball just before the club head hits the turf (closer to the yellow line). The shaft will be leaning toward the target so in essence you are de-lofting the club. The further back the ball position from the red line, but more de-lofted the club face. This is what they are referring to for Pro golfers lowering the launch of wedges and short irons.

For long irons and woods, the angle of attack is less steep due to the longer shaft. Your divots generally are more shallow too. So you can move the ball a bit forward toward the red line because you are a bit less likely to catch it fat or more precisely for our HC, less likely to have a slightly heavy shot affect the impact of the swing.  So by moving it closer to our left heel, we have less shaft lean at impact and higher launch. 

For driver, you want to be hitting it after the low point so the angle of attack is positive. So the ball position should be at the left heel or even more forward than that.

Figuring out your low point is the critical part. For irons, just go to a grass range and see where the divot is compared to the ball. Put a tee in the grass to mark your ball position (on the opposite side of your stance) and swing normally. Do a few of these and you will see whether you are hitting ball before ground. 

You can do this with woods too, but they don't make as good a divot. Sometimes it's just easier to start with the ball at iron position, then move it a half ball at a time forward and try it there. I think you will find you can play it pretty far forward for a 3 or 5W and still make good contact.

Lastly, the driver is a bit tougher because you also have to figure out your angle of attack versus where in the swing circle your are hitting the ball. If you go too far forward, you make have gone past the in-to-out point and the head is now moving left along the circle. This can lead to some side spin. The best way to figure this out is on a launch monitor that also looks at the head position.

Last year I was struggling with the ball near my instep for the driver with misses both ways. When I tested the TaylorMade M1 driver for the review, it showed I was too far forward. I was getting a +4 deg angle of attack, but was also out to in at that point. So if the face was closed to path, I was getting a wicked hook. Face open to path, big slice. I tested moving the ball back to where the angle of attack was still positive (+05 to 1.0 deg), but the swing path was still slightly in-to-out still. I got much more consistent results after that. For me, that was just at my left heel (the middle of the ball was splitting the line made to my left heel).

I recommend spending some time doing this at the range. Don't do it all in one session, but focus on irons one time, woods the next. You will learn a lot about where the ball should be for your swing.

Thank you for your detailed response. I will try some of these tests next time I'm at the range.

[Buckeyebowman]

I can appreciate boogielicious's comments, and can attest that they are true provided you have an impact position like Adam Scott's! But how many of us do? If you're coming into the ball with a straight right wrist and cupped left wrist you are DOA! I'm not claiming a panacea here, but I've been checking some instructional videos from several teachers. They all advocate a flat left wrist at impact with the shaft leaning forward. I saw one video where the instructor had students practicing in a bunker. He'd draw a line in the sand and told the student to imagine that a ball was there with it's forward edge (toward the target) on that line. They were to take practice swings to get the divot started at that line, and for the divot to bottom out about 4 inches in front of it. Maybe you should try an exercise like that and see where it leads.