PGA Tour Players Not Marking Balls when In Position to Assist Another Player, #Backstopping

[Blackjack Don]

I merely posted a quotation from a national golf writer, which presented an opposite point of view. I did not endorse it. I was careful, because I knew this is exactly how these conversations take off. Let loose the attack dogs.

Recreational. Right. I don't get involved with millionaires, and poor things trying to feed their family. Recreational golfer here. I do not play for trophies or tournaments. So why attack me because I don't care?

Open your minds, people. Do you really think I don't understand your point of view? You've shown you don't understand anyone but your own, which I suppose is why you think no one else does.

As for coming to my blackjack table, fine. If you're too dumb to know the game is rigged and you're going to lose, fine by me. Isn't that what you're arguing here? That you don't want the game rigged?

[Shorty]

6 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I will never play a round of golf where this rule, or any other rule, will make any difference to me. Not a single time. This makes me a bad person?

How about I come and play poker with you and make up my own rules. Would you be sympathetic when I said your rules are meaningless to me because I'm not playing for a living. My friends don't care so why should you? Would you think it's fine for me to make up my own rules and take your money anyway? I mean - geez - it's only cards - scraps of cardboard - there are starving children - why would you stress over 52 bits of paper? Now...that wouldn't make me a "bad person". It would make me a dick who you'd dislike and I doubt I'd be invited back. Does that make any sense? It kind of isn't about you...

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I merely posted a quotation from a national golf writer, which presented an opposite point of view.

Uhhhhmmmmm, bullshit.

That's not what you "merely" did. You did more than that.

7 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

I was careful, because I knew this is exactly how these conversations take off. Let loose the attack dogs.

Stop saying stupid shit.

7 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Recreational. Right. I don't get involved with millionaires, and poor things trying to feed their family. Recreational golfer here. I do not play for trophies or tournaments. So why attack me because I don't care?

Look at the topic title.

We're not discussing your golf game.

7 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Open your minds, people. Do you really think I don't understand your point of view? You've shown you don't understand anyone but your own, which I suppose is why you think no one else does.

That's rich.

[Vinsk]

24 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

You've shown you don't understand anyone but your own,

How? By recognizing how idiotic your ‘quote from a golf writer’ was? I understand it completely. It’s sub-moronic. Not agreeing doesn’t mean not understanding. What I clearly understand is you’re saying, as @iacas stated quite accurately, stupid shit.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Vinsk

[Blackjack Don]

20 hours ago, iacas said:

No.

And I guess it was the second.

Eric, we have different points of view about golf. I see it as a game, a recreational sport, a fun thing to do more than anything else. I think you see it as a competitive sport, where everyone plays by the rules. This would lead us into vastly different ideas about everything.

Rather than penalizing a player for improving is lie, I'd encourage it. It makes the game easier. This would be a terrible thing for players who are competing, whether against others or against par.  Put $$$ on it and it brings it to a whole new level. I know. I see it every day at work. People who are normally very nice people become something different when they lose and losing money makes it worse. So I can see why a person who cheats at golf should be burned at the stake.

But not the guys who are trying to make the game easier and more fun and GROW the game. To increase anything, it must be more inclusive. The name calling here--that never seems to get called out--is the exact opposite of that. Protect the integrity of the competitive game is fine and actually very good, but perhaps some moderation might work better.

It's obvious, to me anyway, that we both love the game of golf. We just see things from a very different point of view. It's okay by me. I hope a differing opinion is okay with you, too.

[iacas]

Once again… read the topic title @Blackjack Don.

Simple as that.

We aren’t discussing you shooting 97.

[Shorty]

11 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

But not the guys who are trying to make the game easier and more fun and GROW the game. To increase anything, it must be more inclusive. The name calling here--that never seems to get called out--is the exact opposite of that. Protect the integrity of the competitive game is fine and actually very good, but perhaps some moderation might work better.

It's obvious, to me anyway, that we both love the game of golf. We just see things from a very different point of view. It's okay by me. I hope a differing opinion is okay with you, too.

The game is not grown by ignoring rules. Do you let your card opponents call any card they like an ace or a king? Do what you want if you play golf, but do not ever write down a score or say you had such and such a score if you don't follow the rules. If you're doing that and your buddy says "4" when he putts out, you say. "No, we aren't scoring, we're just having a hit. That was actually an 8." There is no room for "viewpoints" and opinions when it comes to rules. By all means, play with your friends and give them putts and improve your lie. I don't care. Let others use your ball as a backstop. Just don't do all that and then say you had 85.

The other thing, though, is that ignoring rules or improving lies doesn't make the game easier. It makes it easier for a person to think they're doing something they aren't. Like scoring 85 when it's actually 115 with an asterisk. And scoring 97 is more satisfying than pretending you shat 79.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Shorty

[Shindig]

27 minutes ago, Blackjack Don said:

Eric, we have different points of view about golf. I see it as a game, a recreational sport, a fun thing to do more than anything else. I think you see it as a competitive sport, where everyone plays by the rules. This would lead us into vastly different ideas about everything.

You know the conversation in this thread is about Tour Players doing it, right?  It makes a lot of the difference of opinion about a variety of things, ranging from amateur play to what @iacas's name is, irrelevant to the topic.  I think that's where the argument is going.

[iacas]

 

 

[fishgolf]

Interesting clip. Yet another one of golfs rules that leaves lots of questions about intent.

[iacas]

18 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

Yet another one of golfs rules that leaves lots of questions about intent.

Not really.

If your ball is in a position to reasonably assist another player, in a stroke play event, it's your duty to mark it.

Intent doesn't really come into play here.

[fishgolf]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not really.

If your ball is in a position to reasonably assist another player, in a stroke play event, it's your duty to mark it.

Intent doesn't really come into play here.

If that's the case, why aren't players being penalized for not marking? 

[iacas]

44 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

If that's the case, why aren't players being penalized for not marking? 

🤦🏼‍♂️

[Vinsk]

5 hours ago, fishgolf said:

If that's the case, why aren't players being penalized for not marking? 

Come on man.....

[fishgolf]

5 hours ago, iacas said:

Not really.

If your ball is in a position to reasonably assist another player, in a stroke play event, it's your duty to mark it.

Intent doesn't really come into play here.

The rule states that "in stroke play, if the committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball...", yeah, you're incorrect intent absolutely does comes into play here. Rules that are ambiguous and leave room for interpretation can and are exercised to their full limit. 

 

[Missouri Swede]

7 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

The rule states that "in stroke play, if the committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball...", yeah, you're incorrect intent absolutely does comes into play here. Rules that are ambiguous and leave room for interpretation can and are exercised to their full limit. 

 

Finish the rule: " ... they are disqualified."

Seems to me that competitors would want to avoid doing anything that could be interpreted by the Committee as breaching that rule.

[iacas]

34 minutes ago, fishgolf said:

The rule states that "in stroke play, if the committee determines that competitors have agreed not to lift a ball...", yeah, you're incorrect intent absolutely does comes into play here. Rules that are ambiguous and leave room for interpretation can and are exercised to their full limit. 

I’m not incorrect.

Thats an action. Not a thought or intent.

And, rather than just trying desperately to win an argument with me for the first time, scroll back and read, for example, what Jimmy Walker and others have said about this.

[Shorty]

Has this blight slowed down? I haven't seen it over the last fortnight.