Orlando Gay Night Club Shooting

[Lihu]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/14/us/orlando-shooter-omar-mateen/

[xcott]

your dictionary matters...

 

assault rifle

noun

 TRENDING! SEE WHY

Simple Definition of assault rifle

• : a gun that can shoot many bullets quickly and that is designed for use by the military

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

 

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Full Definition of assault rifle

1. :  any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines designed for military use

" Disagree, not everyone hunting is a good under pressure"

 

Some people suck at hunting does not really mean we should be legalizing assault weapons. A few more maimed deer or a few more empty handed hunters is a small price to pay. They could probably land that deer for sure with a grenade.

[Gunther]

4 minutes ago, xcott said:

your dictionary matters...

 

assault rifle

noun

 TRENDING! SEE WHY

Simple Definition of assault rifle

• : a gun that can shoot many bullets quickly and that is designed for use by the military

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

 

•  
•  
•  
•  
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Full Definition of assault rifle

1. :  any of various automatic or semiautomatic rifles with large capacity magazines designed for military use

Been there, done that.  From 1994-2004.  No measurable impact on gun murders.  Indeed, gun murders have declined since the ban sunsetted. 

What's your next suggestion?

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, xcott said:

An ar15 can fire about 700 rounds a minute.  Is that rapid fire?  Yes

It actually can not. Even for the M-16 the cyclic rate of fires is 800 RPM, but the effective rate of fire is about 45 RPM when it's set in Semi-Automatic mode. 

Also, you are still required to pull the trigger for each shot. You do not get to hold down the trigger for automatic firing. 

7 minutes ago, xcott said:

your dictionary matters...

Some people suck at hunting does not really mean we should be legalizing assault weapons. A few more maimed deer or a few more empty handed hunters is a small price to pay. They could probably land that deer for sure with a grenade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle

1. It must be an individual weapon
2. It must be capable of selective fire
3. It must have an intermediate-power cartridge
4. It must have a detachable box magazine
5. It should have a range of 300 meters. 

The U.S. Army defines assault rifles as "short, compact, selective-fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power between submachine gun and rifle cartridges

An AR-15 is not an assault rifle because it doesn't have selective fire. It doesn't have fully automatic fire or a burst setting. It only has the semi-automatic setting.

I would take the Military's definition over Webster. 

 

[xcott]

"Been there, done that.  From 1994-2004.  No measurable impact on gun murders.  Indeed, gun murders have declined since the ban sunsetted. 

What's your next suggestion?"

 

To understand the difference between correlation and causation.

[Jeremie Boop]

10 minutes ago, xcott said:

your dictionary matters...

 

assault rifle

noun

 TRENDING! SEE WHY

Simple Definition of assault rifle

• : a gun that can shoot many bullets quickly and that is designed for use by the military

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary

 

•  
•  
•  
•  
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Even your definition doesn't match the AR-15, as it's not designed for use by the military. So, again, it still doesn't match the definition of assault rifle. So, in the end, there's no point in discussion with you as you are intent on ignoring key parts of definitions in order to make them match your point of view.

[xcott]

" Even your definition doesn't match the AR-15, as it's not designed for use by the military. "

The AR-15 became the m-16. It was designed for military use. 

I've shot an AR-15 on many occasions, if you don't think it's an assault rifle, you're confused.

[Gunther]

4 minutes ago, xcott said:

"Been there, done that.  From 1994-2004.  No measurable impact on gun murders.  Indeed, gun murders have declined since the ban sunsetted. 

What's your next suggestion?"

 

To understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Lemme know how that goes.

[Lihu]

31 minutes ago, xcott said:

An ar15 can fire about 700 rounds a minute.  Is that rapid fire?  Yes

Does an ar 15 magazine fed? Yes

The AR15 is a branded name for a gun which was originally the m-16 designed for infantry use.

 

So....

I get the feeling you don't know what an AR-15 is. You seem to believe that it is a style of look, rather than an actual thing.

It's theoretically possible, but not likely. Even the best shooters can't come close.

My guess is the average really good shooter can possibly get 3 rounds per second, change magazines in 3 seconds, pull then aim 2 seconds, then fire for another 10 seconds. So, maybe 120 rounds at most.

A drum might make the firing rate faster, but not likely to get even close to even a 1/4 of the 700 round rate. Even full auto the gun might overheat, or something else might fail.

I'll ask one of my friends who has match grade components what he thinks. My initial guess is no way. Not even close.

 

 

 

25 minutes ago, chspeed said:

Actually it's a bit of both. The AR-15 was the rebranded M-16, but has a number of modifications. The most important modifications have to do with making it harder to turn it into a full automatic, which used to be simple when it first came out.

Yes, the AR-15 trigger group is the same with modifications to prevent automatic mode. You can still fire rapidly, but the typical consumer version could overheat and jam.

[Jeremie Boop]

15 minutes ago, xcott said:

" Even your definition doesn't match the AR-15, as it's not designed for use by the military. "

The AR-15 became the m-16. It was designed for military use. 

I've shot an AR-15 on many occasions, if you don't think it's an assault rifle, you're confused.

The AR-15 is not the m-16, the military does not use the AR-15. The AR-15 is a civilian rifle. I'm not confused about anything, I know what an assault rifle is, you seem to be confused about what it is because you exclude specific words from definitions in order to make those definitions fit your argument. @saevel25 gave you the military definition of an assault rifle, and like him, I'm more inclined to follow what they classify as an assault weapon. As I said before, there's no point in continuing a discussion with you on this.

 

I'll just leave this here, for anyone that's interested. I thought it was pretty good:

http://www.assaultweapon.info/

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by Jeremie Boop

[saevel25]

18 minutes ago, xcott said:

To understand the difference between correlation and causation.

There is more going on than just more guns = more violence. A lot of gun violence is a culture, drug, or economic problems. Just moving to a bigger city drastically raises your chances of being a victim of a violent crime. 

Once you get into cities over 100,000 your violent crime rate rises dramatically, as much as 1.5 to 2. Your murder rates triple if you get into a city over 250,000 population. Your robbery rates jump to as much as 5x. 

15 minutes ago, xcott said:

I've shot an AR-15 on many occasions, if you don't think it's an assault rifle, you're confused.

It's not an assault rifle. See the military definition. It doesn't have selective fire. Just because the AR-15 was designed after the M-16 does mean it meets the criteria of an assault rifle. 

Please use the quote function.

 

[Dave2512]

15 minutes ago, Lihu said:

It's theoretically possible, but not likely. Even the best shooters can't come close.

My guess is the average really good shooter can possibly get 3 rounds per second, change magazines in 3 seconds, pull then aim 2 seconds, then fire for another 10 seconds. So, maybe 120 rounds at most.

A drum might make the firing rate faster, but not likely to get even close to even a 1/4 of the 700 round rate. Even full auto the gun might overheat, or something else might fail.

I'll ask one of my friends who has match grade components what he thinks. My initial guess is no way. Not even close.

 

 

 

Yes, the AR-15 trigger group is the same with modifications to prevent automatic mode. You can still fire rapidly, but the typical consumer version could overheat and jam.

These vids you're posting won't do anything but demonstrate that despite not having a technical assault rifle designation guns like this are efficient killing machines. This is where I split from the pro gun folks, this goes beyond personal protection. Unless you are defending yourself from Die Hard type encounters. So while it is a "right" to purchase weapons like this I really don't see an upside.

[xcott]

The AR-15 is specifically designed to kill the maximum number of humans as fast as possible. IT has no legitimate hunting purpose and is specifically outlawed for such activities in many states. It is no different than a mine which would be a good home protection device but has no purpose other than killing humans. 

I can more easily wrap my head around someone who says people should have grenades AND ar-15s rather than just the AR-15. There is no real difference in their intended use. 

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, xcott said:

The AR-15 is specifically designed to kill the maximum number of humans as fast as possible. 

Nope. If it was then it would be fully automatic.

That isn't to say I believe we should own such guns, or they should be as easily to buy as a handgun. 

 

[xcott]

Also the "Assault Rifle Ban" defined Assault rifles differently, so I'm more of a descriptivist than prescrptive linquist. How words are used is extremely important.

[colin007]

arent these types of guns actually easier to buy than handguns in certain areas?

[Jeremie Boop]

Just now, colin007 said:

arent these types of guns actually easier to buy than handguns in certain areas?

They all require the background checks, but I'm not sure about any waiting periods. I was able to purchase my rifle without a wait, same with a shotgun and muzzle loader, but I have not tried to purchase a handgun.

[saevel25]

9 minutes ago, xcott said:

Also the "Assault Rifle Ban" defined Assault rifles differently, so I'm more of a descriptivist than prescrptive linquist. How words are used is extremely important.

I would take the Military's definition over what some law maker thinks it is. The Military is in the business of know what and what isn't an assault rifle. 

The AR-15 fails to have the selective rate of fire that is required by all assault rifles. 

There is no Assault Rifle Ban, there was an Assault Weapon's Ban that happened in 1994. 

If you are going to argue semantics you might want to be up on the terminology. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban