Brexit - Leave or Remain

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

The issue is just like Britain going it alone. The economies have all become linked during the time they were included in EU. With Scotland it will be worse because they have services provided as UK.

My guess is that Ireland and Scotland together can join EU without too much opposition?

Scotland has a lot of oil that has been contributing to the UK economy for many years. So it is not like they have been just sponging off England. It may not last forever, but it has been a large revenue source.

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Scotland has a lot of oil that has been contributing to the UK economy for many years. So it is not like they have been just sponging off England. It may not last forever, but it has been a large revenue source.

True, EU might foot the bill for medical and infrastructure for the oil.

They've only consumed about half the oil so far.

[Braivo]

14 hours ago, ghalfaire said:

You Brits did the correct thing in this colonist opinion.  Might suffer some initially but you'll be a lot better off in the longer term.

I agree. Congratulations to Great Britain for reclaiming independence. They will benefit a great deal from being free of a remote bureaucracy. 

I've always felt that the more local control the better. 

[Lihu]

20 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I agree. Congratulations to Great Britain for reclaiming independence. They will benefit a great deal from being free of a remote bureaucracy. 

I've always felt that the more local control the better. 

This is more or less the way I feel as well, but I can't help but think that this "Leave" thing just won't work.

We don't even know if it would be "Great" Britain, if this actually succeeds. Scotland, the greater London and Cambridge regions voted no and who knows what will happen? I guess they still have Wales? http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wales-eu-referendum-vote-leave-uk-ignored-by-westminster-a7102551.html

So, 30% of the population who voted no on "Leave" are in localized spots with less than a third of the population within these local regions dissenting from the general feeling. The vote for "Leave" didn't reflect their local interests?

This is a tough one to enact, and I think "Leave" will be mostly symbolic in the end.

[Abu3baid]

5 minutes ago, Lihu said:

This is more or less the way I feel as well, but I can't help but think that this "Leave" thing just won't work.

We don't even know if it would be "Great" Britain, if this actually succeeds. Scotland, the greater London and Cambridge regions voted no and who knows what will happen? I guess they still have Wales? http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-wales-eu-referendum-vote-leave-uk-ignored-by-westminster-a7102551.html

So, 30% of the population who voted no on "Leave" are in localized spots with less than a third of the population within these local regions dissenting from the general feeling. The vote for "Leave" didn't reflect their local interests?

This is a tough one to enact, and I think "Leave" will be mostly symbolic in the end.

Well, for all the mess they have caused it would be hallarious if they never end up submitting the artical 50 and I would expect riots in GB if the government doesn't go through with it.

The will of the people and all that.

[Lihu]

5 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Well, for all the mess they have caused it would be hilarious if they never end up submitting the artical 50 and I would expect riots in GB if the government doesn't go through with it.

The will of the people and all that.

I'm not so sure the people of Britain are that stupid.

[newtogolf]

The UK government was tired of their citizens complaining about the EU so they threw the referendum out there to shut them up.  They never really wanted to exit the EU, they just wanted to silence those that wished to exit.  They must have been shocked when the popular vote went against them.  

At this point if they don't exit, I'd expect there will be a major uprising in England unless the EU offers them a better deal to stay that appeases the Brexits.  

[boogielicious]

29 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I agree. Congratulations to Great Britain for reclaiming independence. They will benefit a great deal from being free of a remote bureaucracy. 

I've always felt that the more local control the better. 

You are making the assumption that the UK did not contribute to the bureaucracy. They had a great deal to do with it. In my business, I would say the UK contribute the majority of regulations and made up most of the bureaucracy and only gained alignment from the rest of the EU. The bureaucracy will not go away at all. That is a fallacy.

[Abu3baid]

1 minute ago, Lihu said:

I'm not so sure the people of Britain are that stupid.

LOL.. Your talking about the same people that left their continent looking for a better life.. :)  they are capable! 

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

The UK government was tired of their citizens complaining about the EU so they threw the referendum out there to shut them up.  They never really wanted to exit the EU, they just wanted to silence those that wished to exit.  They must have been shocked when the popular vote went against them.  

Of course they were shocked. They probably only polled people in London just like any of our stupid polls.

Established politicians were shocked when Trump won the GOP nomination.

 

1 minute ago, newtogolf said:

At this point if they don't exit, I'd expect there will be a major uprising in England unless the EU offers them a better deal to stay that appeases the Brexits.  

I doubt this would actually happen. There would be some kind of "compromise".

[Abu3baid]

Just now, Lihu said:

Of course they were shocked. They probably only polled people in London just like any of our stupid polls.

Established politicians were shocked when Trump won the GOP nomination.

 

I doubt this would actually happen. There would be some kind of "compromise".

I doubt it very much.. That's a good way for the EU to encourage descent amongst their ranks.

Think of it this way, the countries in the EU must always feel that they are getting a better deal being in the EU rather than out of it.

[Braivo]

4 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Of course they were shocked. They probably only polled people in London just like any of our stupid polls.

Established politicians were shocked when Trump won the GOP nomination.

 

I doubt this would actually happen. There would be some kind of "compromise".

Most people are underestimating the rise of nationalism taking place throughout the western world. Trump and Brexit are the first two examples of many to come. Folks are seeing that globalism is a lie that helps the elites and leaves the middle class behind. This movement is large. Brexit is not the reason the markets are crashing, it's the fear that other nations are going to follow suit. Great Britain was the first domino. 

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

LOL.. Your talking about the same people that left their continent looking for a better life.. :)  they are capable! 

No, they went to Holland and then the New World because they were being persecuted for their religion!

Where would these dissenters of EU go now?

 

6 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

I doubt it very much.. That's a good way for the EU to encourage dissent among their ranks.

Think of it this way, the countries in the EU must always feel that they are getting a better deal being in the EU rather than out of it.

Most people feel this way, but I think the central government of UK obviously underestimated the dissatisfaction among its voters.

This is something that happens in the United States. Kind of like the "King Who Wore No Clothes".

Politicians get too detached from their constituency.

 

1 minute ago, Braivo said:

Most people are underestimating the rise of nationalism taking place throughout the western world. Trump and Brexit are the first two examples of many to come. Folks are seeing that globalism is a lie that helps the elites and leaves the middle class behind. This movement is large. Brexit is not the reason the markets are crashing, it's the fear that other nations are going to follow suit. Great Britain was the first domino. 

Sure, that's what happens when governments get too "elite".

[Silent]

53 minutes ago, Braivo said:

I agree. Congratulations to Great Britain for reclaiming independence. They will benefit a great deal from being free of a remote bureaucracy. 

I've always felt that the more local control the better. 

Great Britain had their independence and would always have it. And what local control are you talking about exactly? You do know that +90% of the laws in Great Britain are their own, and that the <10% of the laws coming from EU had A. little to do with the man on the street,  B. Great Britain had a vote in those laws to begin with and C. after this Brexit those <10% probably won't even disappear since it mostly was about trading, working together etc., things that will still be in place? Things like 'getting your country back', 'freedom' and 'taking control' seem to work quite good as retorics but in fact mean a whole lot of nothing in this matter since the actual facts don't seem to matter that much.

[Lihu]

7 minutes ago, Silent said:

Great Britain had their independence and would always have it. And what local control are you talking about exactly? You do know that +90% of the laws in Great Britain are their own, and that the <10% of the laws coming from EU had A. little to do with the man on the street,  B. Great Britain had a vote in those laws to begin with and C. after this Brexit those <10% probably won't even disappear since it mostly was about trading, working together etc., things that will still be in place? Things like 'getting your country back', 'freedom' and 'taking control' seem to work quite good as retorics but in fact mean a whole lot of nothing in this matter since the actual facts don't seem to matter that much.

I think the main one is forced immigration and forced acceptance of refugees.

British are very particular about their country. At least 52% of the British feel this way. . .

It is probably difficult for a person from the Netherlands to understand since you've been accepting refugees for centuries.

[Silent]

7 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I think the main one is forced immigration and forced acceptance of refugees.

British are very particular about their country. At least 52% of the British feel this way. . .

It is probably difficult for a person from the Netherlands to understand since you've been accepting refugees for centuries.

And Great Britain had a vote in that..... and they voted in favour. The only ones voting against it were a few Eastern European countries. I know, the irony....

[Braivo]

23 minutes ago, Silent said:

Great Britain had their independence and would always have it. And what local control are you talking about exactly? You do know that +90% of the laws in Great Britain are their own, and that the <10% of the laws coming from EU had A. little to do with the man on the street,  B. Great Britain had a vote in those laws to begin with and C. after this Brexit those <10% probably won't even disappear since it mostly was about trading, working together etc., things that will still be in place? Things like 'getting your country back', 'freedom' and 'taking control' seem to work quite good as retorics but in fact mean a whole lot of nothing in this matter since the actual facts don't seem to matter that much.

So then why the big deal to leave if it didn't matter much anyway?

17 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I think the main one is forced immigration and forced acceptance of refugees.

I met several Brits last week while traveling in Europe, all of them that supported Brexit sited this as their main reason. A country ceases to exist once its borders become pourous. They are unwilling to hand their country over to immigrants. 

[boogielicious]

7 minutes ago, Braivo said:

So then why the big deal to leave if it didn't matter much anyway?

I met several Brits last week while traveling in Europe, all of them that supported Brexit sited this as their main reason. A country ceases to exist once its borders become pourous. They are unwilling to hand their country over to immigrants. 

And I work with quite a few who feel completely the opposite.