My Swing (IanW)

[IanW]

 

I've been Playing Golf for: 15 years in total spread over 36 years. Lots as a junior (shot around par), resurgence at 30, break for 2 years at 34, now back into it.
My current handicap index or average score is: 4ish. I can shoot par, or 85. All depends on whether my timing is on or off :)
My typical ball flight is: high, super high, and super duper high. Mix in a light fade for irons and a big powerless push fade with the driver. 
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: driver/long irons: powerless push fade off the face of the planet. wedges a slightly fat pull draw as i am fine with the light 5 to 15 yard fade I have. The ugly pull draw sucks when aiming 12 yards left.

 

I would like to get a consistent miss one way. As a kid I had this. Today I don't. I don't know if I am going to hit a pull, pull draw, or a powerless push fade. I am fine with a pull fade or a push draw (whichever is easier to get to). But I want to miss one way.

My driver is a big problem. If I am on a short course and can hit 4w/hybrid off tees then I will typically be around par to 3 or 4 over. If I have to hit the driver then I could get lucky and be even or could shoot 85 losing 6 balls.

 

Looking at my videos, I think I have a few issues:

Setup:

- I think I need more of a forward press at address. I suspect that alone would probably help with the misses left and perhaps the flip??

- Perhaps get my hips nudged closer to the target (spine tilt?)

 

Takeaway:

- I think I am going back inside. I suspect this leads me to be across the line at the top. Which probably means I have to manipulate a bunch of stuff on the downswing.

 

Top of backswing:  

- across the line, disconnected arms from body?

 

impact:

- such a beautiful flip :( I suspect giving me the super high ballflight. Oddly, I can hit my 8 iron about 150, my 21degree hybrid about 215, 17 degree 4w about 240. I would love to fix this flip as I suspect I would get some yardage gain and not have the ball come backwards in the wind.

 

What I am working on now:

- I am focusing my time and effort on chipping and putting :) It was horrible. My scrambling was about 10%. Mix of bad chips to missing 4 footers 75% of the time. I have slowly gotten this into shape now so will spend some time on the driver and short irons.

- losing 50 pounds (one of the reasons I started golfing again. Had to get off my ass. hehe)

---

Videos: 

I apparently disabled slow motion except for the first set of swings.

first three DTL: 54 degree wedges

2nd three FO: PW

last 6 DTL/FO: drivers

 

Cheers

Ian

[RandallT]

Great to see a swing thread, @IanW. A true welcome to the community. Not that I don't love the threads on Arccos and underwear, but I have a feeling you'll get some decent feedback from folks around here, as they stumble on over here. My recommendation is to keep updating it over time, keep contributing to fun threads elsewhere like you do, and people eventually show up to chat here.

I'll leave it to the experts to help with the actual swing, but looks like you're in pretty good shape to start with. Good luck!

[boogielicious]

Thanks for posting Ian. On the down-the-line videos, have the camera pointed along your toe line. It's a better angle for analysis.

[IanW]

33 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Thanks for posting Ian. On the down-the-line videos, have the camera pointed along your toe line. It's a better angle for analysis.

Ahh yes. I thought something looked odd :) Will fix it up for next time :)

 

[IanW]

I grabbed a quick video during my lunch practice session today to try and get a better angle as @boogielicious suggested. I wasn't able to edit it as nicely as the previous ones but thought I would throw it up here anyway.

 

I grabbed this after a quick warmup before actually practicing anything.

I spent the rest of my 45 minute practice session working on getting my hands forward at address and trying to take the club back straight rather than inside. Some quick video showed that I was slightly less across the line at the top, but still over it. More work to follow in the coming week.

 

Ian

 

[billchao]

@IanW, nice swing. Looks to me like you don't flip as bad as you think you do.

I think your hips stall and your arms overtake fast. Your clubface is completely rolled over at A8.

[IanW]

3 minutes ago, billchao said:

@IanW, nice swing. Looks to me like you don't flip as bad as you think you do.

I think your hips stall and your arms overtake fast. Your clubface is completely rolled over at A8.

Thanks @billchao. I didn't believe you about the flip, so I grabbed a screencap of a front on video I had while practising at the end of my session. I thank you for your comment as it made me look. It doesn't seem as bad at contact as I had envisioned.

Though I see my hips are way behind :( I suppose this is the hip stall. :( 

 

Looks like I now have some reading to do :) Thank you for your comment :)

 

Ian

 

 

[billchao]

1 hour ago, IanW said:

Though I see my hips are way behind :( I suppose this is the hip stall. :(

Yea it just looks to me like your hips aren't continuing to open into impact which lets your hands and clubhead to rotate closed quickly through impact, causing your start line issues.

Your hands aren't really deep enough either which could be part of the problem. I believe the more vertical you swing, the easier it is to rotate your forearms.

[GolfLug]

@IanW, seems to be fundamentally fairly sound swing. Your good days are prolly really good. I see a bit of an issue with Key #2 - weight forward at impact with driver (AKA, hanging back).

Have you read about the  5 Simple Keys on the website? 

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/55426-introducing-five-simple-keys®/#comment-757276

Good players have been measured at as much as 95% of their weight on the left at impact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0b6wDS_WE  

[Phil McGleno]

How far are you from upper PA-NY?-Not too far?

[IanW]

On 7/8/2016 at 4:24 PM, GolfLug said:

@IanW, seems to be fundamentally fairly sound swing. Your good days are prolly really good. I see a bit of an issue with Key #2 - weight forward at impact with driver (AKA, hanging back).

Have you read about the  5 Simple Keys on the website? 

https://thesandtrap.com/forums/topic/55426-introducing-five-simple-keys®/#comment-757276

Good players have been measured at as much as 95% of their weight on the left at impact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iD0b6wDS_WE  

I have just really begun to read the immense amount of information on this site. I have added these to my reading list. Thank you!

 

On 7/8/2016 at 4:16 PM, billchao said:

Yea it just looks to me like your hips aren't continuing to open into impact which lets your hands and clubhead to rotate closed quickly through impact, causing your start line issues.

Your hands aren't really deep enough either which could be part of the problem. I believe the more vertical you swing, the easier it is to rotate your forearms.

I did a bit of reading. Is the hip stall the same thing that others call 'humping the goat'? I didn't think I had a thing for small farm animals but I have been known to sleepwalk from time to time. 

22 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

How far are you from upper PA-NY?-Not too far?

I am about an hour and a half to Buffalo if that helps. 

 

Ian

[billchao]

5 minutes ago, IanW said:

I did a bit of reading. Is the hip stall the same thing that others call 'humping the goat'? I didn't think I had a thing for small farm animals but I have been known to sleepwalk from time to time. 

No, that's early extension which I don't see in your swing. Hip stalling has to do with rotation. You open the hips at the start of the downswing, then they don't really rotate fast enough and your arms/shoulders overtake.

At least that's what I see, but I'm not an expert, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will comment.

[IanW]

33 minutes ago, billchao said:

No, that's early extension which I don't see in your swing. Hip stalling has to do with rotation. You open the hips at the start of the downswing, then they don't really rotate fast enough and your arms/shoulders overtake.

At least that's what I see, but I'm not an expert, so maybe someone more knowledgeable will comment.

Understood. Thanks for correcting me. I would have been off in the wrong direction :)

 

Ian

[amoline]

Far be it from me to offer advice to a 4 HI but a hip stall would be the case if you were actually rotating too fast from the top then your hands and arms have to take over and roll to save the shot. It's hard to tell from the video, but you don't look to have a ton of hip turn for as far as your shoulders and arms go.

This is where Rory gets his "hip stall" from -- a light hip turn and firing fast from the top means his hips outrun his shoulders and arms and have to wait for everything else to catch up. 

Again, though, I'll leave the certain advice to the pro instructors in this case. You have an awesome swing! I'm jealous of your rhythm. 

[IanW]

Thanks for the comments everyone. I have definitely learned one thing by posting my swing. I have lots to learn. Lots of words used that I don't understand :) 

 

I am curious how much I actually turn my hips on the back swing. I had an instructor 5 years ago tell me to turn the hips more going back. I suspect this was an attempt to rid me of the hip stall and keep my hands/arms connected to my body. If I remember right, he used flightscope or something like that to tell me that my clubhead speed was higher 8 inches from the ball on the downswing as compared to at impact. Some of this makes a bit of sense now.

 

I had a really busy weekend so didn't get to spend much time thinking of golf. Now that I am back to work I will do some reading ;)

 

Cheers

Ian.

[IanW]

I had a chance today to hit some shots on a Flightscope Xi Tour (indoors). I was testing out a new to me set of irons as I suspected the shafts needed to be changed. Long story short the shafts didn't matter. 2nd moral of the story: New clubs are worse than old ones :)

 

But I got some useful info from the flightscope. I am going to go in next week and do a full gapping on it just to see where everything is. I sadly only got the 'averages' from 5 shots for each of 2 different 7 irons. Both 7 irons have the exact same loft

old 7 iron (710 AP2, 2 degrees upright, DG X100)

• club speed: 83.8mph
• ball speed: 115.7mph
• smash: 1.38
• spin: 4904rpm  axis: 11.0L
• Vert: 17.5, Horz 1.3L
• Height: 85.1
• face to path: 4.8L
• face to target: 2.3L
• club path: 2.4R
• Dynamic Loft: 22.8
• Angle of Attack: -1.1
• classification: draw
• Simulated carry on "Medium": 176
• Simulated total on "Medium": 179
• Lateral: 11.2L

 

new 7 iron (712 MB, stock lie, KBS Tour S)

• club speed: 85.5mph
• ball speed: 115.9mph
• smash: 1.35
• spin: 5794rpm  axis: 1.7RL
• Vert: 18.2, Horz 0.7L
• Height: 91.2
• face to path: 0.7R
• face to target: 0.4R
• club path: 0.3L
• Dynamic Loft: 24.8
• Angle of Attack -0.5
• Simulated carry on "Medium": 174
• Simulated total on "Medium": 176
• Lateral: 0.6L

 

There are a few numbers in there I have to learn about. "Lateral" for example. My dispersion with the 712 was substantially worse when looking at the picture of 'grouping'. The 710 was 12 yards. The 712 was 25 yards. All the 710s were left. The 712s were half left and half right.

I have 2 major conclusions from this very small sample:

• I DO NOT hit the ball too high. I am probably just right at 85 to 90 ft. I thought I was hitting it way high.
• My angle of attack is too close to 0. With a 7 iron I think I want something like -5. I am -1ish.

I do have some open questions as well

• What is "lateral" on the stats.
  • "Grouping" was better for the 710 but its lateral was 11.2L. My initial guess is my average is left of the target line. Given all shots were left I guess this makes sense
  • "Grouping" was poor on the 712. I missed half left and half right of the target line. This alone may invalidate all the results?
• How the heck do I get a higher negative value for angle of attack
• 12 yards dispersion for 7iron. Is this good? (yes, small sample size)
• 176 yards. I don't recall ever hitting a 7 iron that far. I plugged the values for my current altitude into the flightscope trajectory tool and it was roughly the same. I call BS :)