The BIG Draw

[Moose777]

My normal ball flight is a slight draw and my grip is neutral.  My handicap is 13 and is due to a poor short game.

Occasionally, I will hit a really big draw.  The ball goes much further than planned and my normal draw gets bigger with the extra distance.  When this happens the apex might be higher than normal, but it is certainly NOT a low/sharp hook.

My swing feels the same when it happens.  

I wonder if my right arm gets too far away from my body???

I am 6' 2" and my 150 club is an 8 iron.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this big draw or am I simply hitting it correctly only occasionally?

Thanks!

[TourSpoon]

Just to give us a little more info, where does your ball start and finish? IE: Straight draw, push draw or pull? Is it with the woods, long irons, mids, or across the board? What is your normal ball position? 

A little more detail may shed some light on this for some input. 

[newtogolf]

Sounds like a pull draw, do you notice your ball starts out more left than usual when you hit one?  

This happens to me when i get my body around late.  I'm a lefty but when this happens my club path is going out to the right  (for you it would be left) but my club face is closed to the target line.  The result for me is the ball starts out more to the right than usual, flies straight and then starts to draw more and more to the right.  Trajectory is the same as a normal shot but the draw and distance is greater likely because of the side spin.  

[Moose777]

Some additional information on the ball flight...

 

[Moose777]

Some additional information on the ball flight...

       I have noticed the big draw with the 7, 6, 5, and my two rescue clubs.  I have NOT noticed it with my driver or 8 - wedges.

       For approach shots, I generally aim for the right side of the green and try to draw it to the middle.  When I hit the big draw, the ball will start out toward the target (the right edge of the green) and it will end up 5 - 20 yards left of the green depending on the size of the green.  Plus, it will 15 - 30 yards long.

      On tee shots, I am for the right edge of the fairway and try to draw it to the middle.  When the big draw happens, the ball flight starts out on line, but will end up 5-20 yards in to the left rough.  Plus, the ball flights an extra 20-30 yards in distance.  If the hole is a dog leg right, I can end up in real trouble.  I recently put one through the door of a maintenance building that is located at the end of dog leg right hole at my course.  The ball was 50 yards left of where I aimed and 30 yards longer than I normally that club.

     I don't think any of these are pulls.  I think I am catching the ball perfectly, but I am getting a ton of spin when it happens.  

     I play the Callaway Chrome Soft which I think is a low spin ball.

     My grip is neutral because of my most common shot has a slight draw already.  I rarely hit any kind of fade.  My other miss is a slight push with my wedges, but no fade.  On those pushes, I think the ball flies to my target, but just doesn't draw.  I probably shouldn't play for a draw on my most lofted clubs.

    Any thoughts on where all the extra spin is coming from?

[Chilli Dipper]

It sounds like you may just be overcompensating for the draw in your set-up.

You know your stock shot is a draw, so you aim right; instead of making your normal swing, you intentionally play for a draw, and it curves even further to the left than normal.

[natureboy]

23 hours ago, Moose777 said:

Any thoughts on where all the extra spin is coming from?

Possibly impact towards the toe (slightly higher club speed) with a closed clubface at impact so the bulge isn't able to compensate for the gear effect on your start line?

Edited July 27, 2016 by natureboy

[GolfLug]

31 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Possibly impact towards the toe (slightly higher club speed) with a closed clubface at impact so the bulge isn't able to compensate for the gear effect on your start line?

He said, doesn't experience with the driver (bulge ref.) Just mid/long irons.

 

On ‎7‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 11:02 AM, Moose777 said:

Some additional information on the ball flight...

       I have noticed the big draw with the 7, 6, 5, and my two rescue clubs.  I have NOT noticed it with my driver or 8 - wedges.

       For approach shots, I generally aim for the right side of the green and try to draw it to the middle.  When I hit the big draw, the ball will start out toward the target (the right edge of the green) and it will end up 5 - 20 yards left of the green depending on the size of the green.  Plus, it will 15 - 30 yards long.

      On tee shots, I am for the right edge of the fairway and try to draw it to the middle.  When the big draw happens, the ball flight starts out on line, but will end up 5-20 yards in to the left rough.  Plus, the ball flights an extra 20-30 yards in distance.  If the hole is a dog leg right, I can end up in real trouble.  I recently put one through the door of a maintenance building that is located at the end of dog leg right hole at my course.  The ball was 50 yards left of where I aimed and 30 yards longer than I normally that club.

     I don't think any of these are pulls.  I think I am catching the ball perfectly, but I am getting a ton of spin when it happens.  

     I play the Callaway Chrome Soft which I think is a low spin ball.

     My grip is neutral because of my most common shot has a slight draw already.  I rarely hit any kind of fade.  My other miss is a slight push with my wedges, but no fade.  On those pushes, I think the ball flies to my target, but just doesn't draw.  I probably shouldn't play for a draw on my most lofted clubs.

    Any thoughts on where all the extra spin is coming from?

I think, I would look at the divot on these to see if they are more in to out, longer and deeper than normal past the ball. An extra 'compressed' in to out impact with closed to club path face can do all that you have described.

[natureboy]

5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

He said, doesn't experience with the driver (bulge ref.) Just mid/long irons.

Good catch. Sorry about missing that detail.

[natureboy]

5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

I think, I would look at the divot on these to see if they are more in to out, longer and deeper than normal past the ball. An extra 'compressed' in to out impact with closed to club path face can do all that you have described.

I would agree with exaggerated in-out path relative to face at impact.

I would think extra compressed ball would have a lower trajectory than his stock shot though. Could be his stock shot with these clubs is not ideal impact and when he has a more exaggerated in-out path he also hits the sweetspot?

I would think a more delofted / compressed impact (narrower spin loft) would tend to lower the apex, wouldn't it? Unless maybe factors contributing to that impact condition also increased clubhead speed and resulted in a lower, slightly ballooning trajectory that was less of a parabola. But he should see that change in shape where the golf ball took off lower initially and reached the same apex later in the ball flight.

[Moose777]

7 minutes ago, natureboy said:

Good catch. Sorry about missing that detail.

I am guessing it would happen with the driver, too.  But, I got fitted for a new driver and they cut my spin rate in half.  And, I tend to catch the heel a bit more with the driver.  Someone gave me a big bag of white tees and they leave a white mark on the face of the driver.  The marks are mostly on the heel side of the center.

[natureboy]

2 minutes ago, Moose777 said:

I am guessing it would happen with the driver, too.  But, I got fitted for a new driver and they cut my spin rate in half.  And, I tend to catch the heel a bit more with the driver.  Someone gave me a big bag of white tees and they leave a white mark on the face of the driver.  The marks are mostly on the heel side of the center.

When you hit the big, long draw does the impact feel any more solid or the same as your regular shot?

[Moose777]

5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

I think, I would look at the divot on these to see if they are more in to out, longer and deeper than normal past the ball. An extra 'compressed' in to out impact with closed to club path face can do all that you have described.

I will take some photos of my divots and compare them.  

I wonder if my right elbow gets away from my body and that closes the club face at impact???

[natureboy]

3 minutes ago, Moose777 said:

I will take some photos of my divots and compare them.  

I wonder if my right elbow gets away from my body and that closes the club face at impact???

If the 'big draw' is starting pretty much along the same line as your regular shots it's much more likely a path issue.

It's possible that you may be optimizing your spin-loft with a shallower AoA on the big draws.

[Moose777]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

When you hit the big, long draw does the impact feel any more solid or the same as your regular shot?

The swing feels the same, but I know quickly that the ball will be long and left.  Not sure if it feels more solid, but I can feel more spin shortly after impact. 

[natureboy]

11 minutes ago, Moose777 said:

but I can feel more spin shortly after impact. 

How exactly do you gain this insight? From your feel of the impact, by watching the ball, or witchcraft? 

[GolfLug]

23 hours ago, natureboy said:

I would agree with exaggerated in-out path relative to face at impact.

I would think extra compressed ball would have a lower trajectory than his stock shot though. Could be his stock shot with these clubs is not ideal impact and when he has a more exaggerated in-out path he also hits the sweetspot?

I would think a more delofted / compressed impact (narrower spin loft) would tend to lower the apex, wouldn't it? Unless maybe factors contributing to that impact condition also increased clubhead speed and resulted in a lower, slightly ballooning trajectory that was less of a parabola. But he should see that change in shape where the golf ball took off lower initially and reached the same apex later in the ball flight.

Yes, lower initial ball flight but you cannot discount how much more and longer duration of lift the ball flight will get with added spin, which is result of differential between club path and verticality of face X speed at impact. 

More the speed at impact, more the spin, more the lift, longer the ball will continue to rise and will have a higher apex but further out. When I said look for longer deeper divot, it is to see if in these particular cases he has more impact speed, which sustains directional inertia in downward direction for longer.

In short, he is hitting it better on these shots, probably because of better weight transfer, and more refined turning rates and better impact position... I mean duh. :-))

23 hours ago, Moose777 said:

I am guessing it would happen with the driver, too.  But, I got fitted for a new driver and they cut my spin rate in half.  And, I tend to catch the heel a bit more with the driver.  Someone gave me a big bag of white tees and they leave a white mark on the face of the driver.  The marks are mostly on the heel side of the center.

   Si.

[Moose777]

21 hours ago, natureboy said:

How exactly do you gain this insight? From your feel of the impact, by watching the ball, or witchcraft? 

I can definitely feel the extra spin at impact.  But, my movements during the swing feel the same to me and it looks the same to the people I am playing with.

But, as soon as I hit it, I know it is long and left.

Honestly, I wish I could repeat it.  But, I usually only do it 3-4 times per round.  I just can't figure out what I am doing to cause it.

It has to be that I am swinging in to out and my right elbow gets away from my body causing the club face to close at impact rather than after.

I just wish I knew what to work on to either do it all the time or to stop doing it.

Golf is a great game!