Golf Ball Question

[Brian W]

I am sorry if this has been beaten to death but I have some questions about ball choices.  To start out, I was playing Top Flite Gamers and found them to be a good ball for years.  I have about 8 dozen of them that I have recently been using as extras in the event the round is not going well and I also use them for practicing in the backyard as I do not have a green to work with.  I have found that softer balls feel much better in all approach and scoring shots.  I have a decent game off the tee and dont have too many shots that are way off although I do leave some out there as my natural shot on a driver is a fade.  I do not mind giving up a bit of distance to get more control on any shot.  I generally hit the driver 260 or so, the 5 iron 180, and a PW 130.  I would like to be better at my approach shots and chip/pitch shots and staying with the same ball will help me understand how they are going to react.

I have a hard time understanding the following points/characteristics of the golf balls and was hoping someone could shed some light for me.

• 3pc vs 2pc
• Softness
• Spin

I guess some of this is my experience using some of the softer balls as they feel like they have more spin but that may not be correct.  What I am looking for is 2 balls here.  I would like to have a ball for the tournaments and serious play that can be more expensive and a "daily" ball that I can use if I am just playing a casual round.  I would like them to perform similarly as if they are too different, my game is going to be different.  

In the past few months I have tried a bunch of different balls that include Gamer Soft, Callaway Supersoft, Titleist DT Softspin, Wilson Duo, Bridgestone e6, Bridgestone Treosoft, Bridgestone Extra Soft, and Srixon Q-Star.  I went to a golf store today and he recommended the Bridgestone B330 RXS as the better ball and the Wilson Duo Soft.  I bought a dozen of the RXS that I am going to try this weekend but I was hoping to get a better understanding of the balls so I can pick the more inexpensive ball.

Sorry for such a wall of text but I figured more information is better than less.  Thoughts from everyone is very much appreciated

[phillyk]

First off, I'd say that the best way to choose a ball is to experiment but that takes time and is somewhat costly.  Second, I'd suggest sticking with a single ball throughout practice and real rounds/tournaments.  This way, there are no surprises in distance control/spin as you've said.  Even if two balls are close in stats, it's usually better just to stick with one ball.  I've seen as much as a 10yd difference in distance between hitting 2 different balls with the same shot.  The main determinant of distance is "hardness."  Hard balls go longer, softer balls go not as far.  Spin is determined somewhat by core and the cover of the ball.  Softer balls, like you said, will typically have more spin.  Certain covers can also "grab" more than others and thus have more short game spin.  A good way to find information on balls is the back cover of the boxes.  Read the difference between ProV1 and ProV1X on the box and the differences between e5,6,7, etc.  Just doing that will give you a general idea of what to look for.  I don't have a good explanation of 2pc vs 3pc, so I'll let some one else do that. 

[Piz]

A two-piece ball has a core and a cover.  A three-piece ball has a core, a mantle, and a cover.  The more layers a golf ball has; the greater opportunity there is for the manufacturer to fine tune things like compression, coefficient of restitution, and spin rate.  

[Brian W]

29 minutes ago, phillyk said:

First off, I'd say that the best way to choose a ball is to experiment but that takes time and is somewhat costly.  Second, I'd suggest sticking with a single ball throughout practice and real rounds/tournaments.  This way, there are no surprises in distance control/spin as you've said.  Even if two balls are close in stats, it's usually better just to stick with one ball.  I've seen as much as a 10yd difference in distance between hitting 2 different balls with the same shot.  The main determinant of distance is "hardness."  Hard balls go longer, softer balls go not as far.  Spin is determined somewhat by core and the cover of the ball.  Softer balls, like you said, will typically have more spin.  Certain covers can also "grab" more than others and thus have more short game spin.  A good way to find information on balls is the back cover of the boxes.  Read the difference between ProV1 and ProV1X on the box and the differences between e5,6,7, etc.  Just doing that will give you a general idea of what to look for.  I don't have a good explanation of 2pc vs 3pc, so I'll let some one else do that. 

I completely agree that it is getting expensive but hopefully its just a one time additional cost.  I know what you are saying with the single ball but if I do in fact like the more expensive ball, I wont be able to afford them at all times.  I guess I am looking for the closest ball to the 330 RXS.  

So if I understand correctly, the core being softer will not go as far due to the compression but will have less side spin and end up being more forgiving?  The cover of the ball will control workability spin on the green?

2 minutes ago, Piz said:

A two-piece ball has a core and a cover.  A three-piece ball has a core, a mantle, and a cover.  The more layers a golf ball has; the greater opportunity there is for the manufacturer to fine tune things like compression, coefficient of restitution, and spin rate.  

So the mantle allows the manufacturer to fine tune those things how?  

[Gunther]

Most of the tour balls are 4-piece these days.  Different thicknesses and compositions of the various layers allow the manufacturers to manipulate spin vs distance.

Guy at the PGA Superstore talked me into a dozen Wilson Duo Urethanes Sunday.  It's their high-end tour ball but regular price is at a the same level as Bridgestone Tour balls when discounted, $37.99 o/dz.   Great ball, highly recommended.  

[Piz]

Say you have a ball made of a cover plus resin A and resin B.  Say, also, that resin A weighs more than resin B.  A ball consisting of core A, mantle B, and a cover will spin less than a ball consisting of core B, mantle A, and a cover, because of the relative weight distribution.

[phillyk]

15 minutes ago, Brian W said:

I completely agree that it is getting expensive but hopefully its just a one time additional cost.  I know what you are saying with the single ball but if I do in fact like the more expensive ball, I wont be able to afford them at all times.  I guess I am looking for the closest ball to the 330 RXS.  

So if I understand correctly, the core being softer will not go as far due to the compression but will have less side spin and end up being more forgiving?  The cover of the ball will control workability spin on the green?

So the mantle allows the manufacturer to fine tune those things how?  

If you're looking for more expensive similar to RXS, go to the B330 S.  If wanting to go to the less expensive version, I like to use Srixon Q Stars or if staying within the family, you can go e6.

Lets take a simple 2 piece like the Pinnacle Gold.  Your basically hitting a rock with a cover on.  Now, take off the cover and a bit of the outer portion of the ball off and add a softer layer and a cover, you've created a hard-ish ball but will have a bit more spin and feel.

[Brian W]

7 minutes ago, Piz said:

Say you have a ball made of a cover plus resin A and resin B.  Say, also, that resin A weighs more than resin B.  A ball consisting of core A, mantle B, and a cover will spin less than a ball consisting of core B, mantle A, and a cover, because of the relative weight distribution.

I think I understand.  You are saying you can have a soft core to get less spin in ball flight and a heavier cover to spin on greens due to the layer between?

5 minutes ago, phillyk said:

If you're looking for more expensive similar to RXS, go to the B330 S.  If wanting to go to the less expensive version, I like to use Srixon Q Stars or if staying within the family, you can go e6.

Lets take a simple 2 piece like the Pinnacle Gold.  Your basically hitting a rock with a cover on.  Now, take off the cover and a bit of the outer portion of the ball off and add a softer layer and a cover, you've created a hard-ish ball but will have a bit more spin and feel.

I would like to keep it in the family as the balls of the same manufacturer may play similarly in my head.  I liked the Q-Star and e6 quite a bit.  I guess my concern is should I go for the softer ball as the compression off the tee is not where I necessarily want to improve my understanding of the ball but the spin once it hits the green whether its an approach shot or a greenside chip/pitch.  I had good luck with both of their softer balls (treosoft and extra soft)

 I guess I will have to make my decision once I play through the dozen RXS I have 

Edited September 6, 2016 by Brian W

[Piz]

I'm not saying that, specifically, but that is the general idea.  It is probably best if I leave it at that.  The water is already up to my neck. 

[stealthhwk]

Ok, I think everyone is pretty accurate so far but Ill go agead and chip in a bit. Golf balls are super advanced complicated things now a days and its easy to get caught up in the hype. The followin is some general info you really NEED and then Ill throw some recommendations based on ur so far stated preferences and requirements. 1) softness vs hard ess is more about how the ball feels when struck with a club. This softer feel sometimes instills confidence in and around the greens for personal preference. Softer balls can spin less or more, soft can fly further or shorter, it all depends on how its tweaked and how it fits your swing speed. 2) Number of pieces matters but not as much as cover. When it comes to golf balls, cover and compression, COVER and COMPRESSION. Cover has more to do with spin rates than layers. A 2 piece may possess 200 rpm less than a three piece but a urethane cover will generate roughly 5,000 more rpm. 200 is probably only noticeable to a pro or a robot. Just about anyone will notice 5000 rpm difference between urethane and surlyn cover. Then theres swing speed. Anyone can somewhat compress a high compression prov1x but if your swing speed is sub 85mph, you could be giving up 15-20 yards off the tee with a high compression ball. If your swing speed is 85 or higher the distance difference is like 4-6 yards most of the time. Now thats nowhere near all of it, but from a practical standpoint thats probably stuff thats most important. The rest is hype, marketting, or just not that significant. Now for YOUR preferences, Ive played several of the b330 tour balls and I find the Bridgestone e5 incredibly similar performance wise. But I can normally score those for 7-15 bucks a dozen cheaper than the 330s. Its also a high flight ball and a two piece which is awesome esp for most amateurs. You get a fairly soft feel, a urethane cover and a ball you can compress fully all without breaking the bank. Cant comment on the Srixons as I just havnt seen the performance promised from any of theirs. Titleist is a bit overpriced but at least its simple. With them, the more u spend, the more u spin u get. Try a few sleeves of what interest you. Start with your putter and work your way back to the tee. Long winded...but hope it helps and saves u some of the aggravation I experienced when I had to switch balls. There was just too mich marketing to get thru. Good luck!

[skeedawg]

FWIW i've been buying a mixed bag of various 330s from golfballnut.com and had good luck with used/reconditioned balls. Last time I paid .37/ball for a bag of 60. It truly is a mix of the 330 series, I've found everything in them. it's a good way to keep it in the same 'family' or series but not break the bank. Hard to beat 5 doz balls for 22-24 dollars depending on the current deal. 

[Brian W]

7 hours ago, stealthhwk said:

Ok, I think everyone is pretty accurate so far but Ill go agead and chip in a bit. Golf balls are super advanced complicated things now a days and its easy to get caught up in the hype. The followin is some general info you really NEED and then Ill throw some recommendations based on ur so far stated preferences and requirements. 1) softness vs hard ess is more about how the ball feels when struck with a club. This softer feel sometimes instills confidence in and around the greens for personal preference. Softer balls can spin less or more, soft can fly further or shorter, it all depends on how its tweaked and how it fits your swing speed. 2) Number of pieces matters but not as much as cover. When it comes to golf balls, cover and compression, COVER and COMPRESSION. Cover has more to do with spin rates than layers. A 2 piece may possess 200 rpm less than a three piece but a urethane cover will generate roughly 5,000 more rpm. 200 is probably only noticeable to a pro or a robot. Just about anyone will notice 5000 rpm difference between urethane and surlyn cover. Then theres swing speed. Anyone can somewhat compress a high compression prov1x but if your swing speed is sub 85mph, you could be giving up 15-20 yards off the tee with a high compression ball. If your swing speed is 85 or higher the distance difference is like 4-6 yards most of the time. Now thats nowhere near all of it, but from a practical standpoint thats probably stuff thats most important. The rest is hype, marketting, or just not that significant. Now for YOUR preferences, Ive played several of the b330 tour balls and I find the Bridgestone e5 incredibly similar performance wise. But I can normally score those for 7-15 bucks a dozen cheaper than the 330s. Its also a high flight ball and a two piece which is awesome esp for most amateurs. You get a fairly soft feel, a urethane cover and a ball you can compress fully all without breaking the bank. Cant comment on the Srixons as I just havnt seen the performance promised from any of theirs. Titleist is a bit overpriced but at least its simple. With them, the more u spend, the more u spin u get. Try a few sleeves of what interest you. Start with your putter and work your way back to the tee. Long winded...but hope it helps and saves u some of the aggravation I experienced when I had to switch balls. There was just too mich marketing to get thru. Good luck!

Thank you so much for the information.  This makes a lot more sense to me now.  I figured I am probably just over thinking this whole thing but that is normal for me during the week when I am not playing!!  I have tried the e5 before and had no problems with it but I hear they are discontinuing them.  I hear they are just going to go with the e6 and e6s or something to that effect

Anyway, I appreciate the help understanding what the important pieces of the ball do

6 hours ago, skeedawg said:

FWIW i've been buying a mixed bag of various 330s from golfballnut.com and had good luck with used/reconditioned balls. Last time I paid .37/ball for a bag of 60. It truly is a mix of the 330 series, I've found everything in them. it's a good way to keep it in the same 'family' or series but not break the bank. Hard to beat 5 doz balls for 22-24 dollars depending on the current deal. 

Thanks, I will check into that 

[natureboy]

14 hours ago, Piz said:

Say you have a ball made of a cover plus resin A and resin B.  Say, also, that resin A weighs more than resin B.  A ball consisting of core A, mantle B, and a cover will spin less than a ball consisting of core B, mantle A, and a cover, because of the relative weight distribution.

I think it also relates to the relative compression from different clubs. You want the ball to react 'hard' if you have a high swing speed to reduce spin, but be softer for normal spin on iron shots and a soft cover (urethane) for more spin / touch shots the green on the slowest speed swings.

[Brian W]

So what is the difference between urethane and surlyn covers?

[stealthhwk]

3 hours ago, Brian W said:

I have tried the e5 before and had no problems with it but I hear they are discontinuing them. 

I highly doubt anything in the e series gets discontinued. A friend in the business tells me theyre Bridgestones best sellers esp the e5 and e6. I sure hope not as Ive fallen head over heels for the e5.

1 hour ago, Brian W said:

So what is the difference between urethane and surlyn covers?

In simplest practical terms, surlyn is a harder more durable plastic and urethane is a softer coverring thats almost rubbery. The much softer urethane cover spins more because it literally sticks to the clubface a bit longer. The downside is urethane balls are more expensive and dont last as long because eventually that softer cover takes too mucb battle damage from clubs, trees, cart paths, houses, or anything else thats fun to hit on a golf course.

[Brian W]

14 minutes ago, stealthhwk said:

I highly doubt anything in the e series gets discontinued. A friend in the business tells me theyre Bridgestones best sellers esp the e5 and e6. I sure hope not as Ive fallen head over heels for the e5.

In simplest practical terms, surlyn is a harder more durable plastic and urethane is a softer coverring thats almost rubbery. The much softer urethane cover spins more because it literally sticks to the clubface a bit longer. The downside is urethane balls are more expensive and dont last as long because eventually that softer cover takes too mucb battle damage from clubs, trees, cart paths, houses, or anything else thats fun to hit on a golf course.

I see.  Once again thanks for the info.

For the E6, I just heard from someone that they were going to stop making the E5 and E7 and just do 2 different E6 but it may not be true

[Brian W]

My first round with the RXS was amazing.  I had one chip in and they were very good in approach and scoring shots.  I dont feel like they were any different off the tee as I hit them pretty much my normal ball flight.  I could tell the difference a lot on the ball flight and how they reacted to the green.

I think I found my new ball!!  I think I am just going to get the refurbished ones off the website above instead of messing with having a second ball.  I have plenty of gamer balls in my bag and at home in the event I am having a very bad day and do not want to drop any more good balls OOB haha

[1badbadger]

On 9/8/2016 at 0:07 PM, Brian W said:

My first round with the RXS was amazing.  I had one chip in and they were very good in approach and scoring shots.  I dont feel like they were any different off the tee as I hit them pretty much my normal ball flight.  I could tell the difference a lot on the ball flight and how they reacted to the green.

I think I found my new ball!!  I think I am just going to get the refurbished ones off the website above instead of messing with having a second ball.  I have plenty of gamer balls in my bag and at home in the event I am having a very bad day and do not want to drop any more good balls OOB haha

Sorry I'm late to the party...just noticed this thread and thought I might be able to provide some information. I'm an equipment tech and worked for Bridgestone for over 9 years up until a few months ago, so I have some insight that might be helpful.

The B330-RXS is a 3-piece, urethane covered ball designed for good players who swing under 105 mph with their driver. It's a very high spinning model and will have great control around the green.  It's very different from the e6.  They are both 3-piece balls, but the e6 has a Surlyn cover which is more durable than urethane and less expensive, but doesn't create as much spin.  The e6 is a low spin ball by design though, so a Surlyn cover is perfect. Typically, less spin = more distance and straighter shots, so for most players the e6 will be longer and straighter than the RXS, but for players who like to shape their shots and who want maximum control around the green, the RXS is a great choice.

I would caution against purchasing refurbished or reconditioned balls.  I know the price is attractive, but there are a few things to consider...  

The majority of second-hand balls are recovered from water hazards. Contrary to what some people think, golf balls do absorb water. The amount adsorbed varies among different types of balls and how long they are submerged, but even drying at high temperatures will not completely rid the ball of the water.  It's impossible to know how long each ball in a batch was laying at the bottom of a pond, so the performance will be different from ball-to-ball. Submersion in water will result in the permanent adverse effect on the performance of a golf ball.

To save some money, I would suggest buying new "prior gen" balls (prior generation) which are discounted.  You'll still be playing a good ball at a lower price.  Hope this helps!