Peter Kostis on Rewriting the Rule Book

[Valleygolfer]

3 hours ago, Fourputt said:

What do you mean?  We've already seen it.  I think that both the LPGA bunker incident and the the US Open putting incident this year were a result of pros taking excessive and unnecessary risks in the way that they set up or prepared for a stroke.  I don't know if either of them has changed the way they do it because of the penalties, but they are certainly aware that the risk is there and that the possibility of a penalty exists if they continue to play the same way.  

If you put individual judgement into the equation, then just because this time moving the ball was not a called penalty, you don't really know if the next referee will see it a bit different and call it on you.  It makes for the possibility of similar situations being judged differently, and that is one thing that the rules abhor.  They strive for equity, and the only way to achieve that is to make the ruling black and white.    

Seems to me that it isn't really black and white already. Some people were dinged on the greens at the US Open while others weren't. I don't know what risks you are talking about? They walk up to the ball and it changed position, sometimes before or after? This is a unnecessary risk?

[newtogolf]

In my mind there is active officiating like what you find in most sports (baseball, football, soccer, hockey, basketball) and passive officiating(golf).  In sports with active officiating, most participants tend to push the rules to the limit because the expectation is it's someones job to watch them and call a foul / penalty if they do something wrong.  When a penalty doesn't get called on a play in football that doesn't mean there weren't any to call it just means the officials didn't see it or didn't feel it impacted the play.  

In golf we're expected to follow the rules on our own and call penalties on ourselves when they occur, especially for non-pro's.  If we're not sure  a penalty should be called or what the ruling is, we ask our playing partners or rules official if one is available what the proper ruling is.  

What I'd hate to see happen in golf is pro's adopt a mentality like what exists in other sports where they now believe the cameras in the sky and opposing players are watching everything and if a ball should roll a micron and no one notices it, then you just play on and wait to see if someone catches it.  

The same goes for the single player not posting scores.  If a single player can't be trusted to post legitimate scores for handicap then what does that say about golf being a gentleman's game?  I know the goal is to create universal handicap index and outside the US, single players can't post scores and in many areas, casual rounds with playing partners can't be posted for handicap purposes.  IMO this is the wrong direction for golf to take.  We should be encouraging more people to play, more people to maintain a handicap and more golfers to posts scores for handicap not the opposite.   

[Fourputt]

56 minutes ago, Valleygolfer said:

Seems to me that it isn't really black and white already. Some people were dinged on the greens at the US Open while others weren't. I don't know what risks you are talking about? They walk up to the ball and it changed position, sometimes before or after? This is a unnecessary risk?

DJ grounded his putter within a few millimeters of his ball.  That is a risk that I wouldn't take.  As far as people being or not being called, the rule has nothing to do with that.  That's just a matter of observation - whether or not anyone, including the player, saw the infraction.

If a rule breach isn't observed by someone, then it can't very well be called.  That doesn't change the fact that, in equity, the Rule treats all infractions, great and small, the same way.

[Fourputt]

55 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

The same goes for the single player not posting scores.  If a single player can't be trusted to post legitimate scores for handicap then what does that say about golf being a gentleman's game?  I know the goal is to create universal handicap index and outside the US, single players can't post scores and in many areas, casual rounds with playing partners can't be posted for handicap purposes.  IMO this is the wrong direction for golf to take.  We should be encouraging more people to play, more people to maintain a handicap and more golfers to posts scores for handicap not the opposite.   

I can throw the single player posting for handicap back at you from another direction.  The USGA is trusting you to only post those scores which conform to the rules in the handicap manual.  If you choose not to do so, then what does that say about you and your choice of what regulations to follow and which ones you choose to ignore?  If you have chosen to ignore their rulings for handicap, what other rules of the game have you decided not to follow?  

After all, if you are posting improper handicap scores anyway, what difference does it matter if they were played by the rules of golf or not?  What this says to me is that maybe there is some justification in the USGA not being blindly trusting of its players to post only proper scores.  It has less to do with the integrity of the game in general than it does with the dishonesty of specific players - and don't try to tell me that those players don't exist. 

[newtogolf]

5 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

I can throw the single player posting for handicap back at you from another direction.  The USGA is trusting you to only post those scores which conform to the rules in the handicap manual.  If you choose not to do so, then what does that say about you and your choice of what regulations to follow and which ones you choose to ignore?  If you have chosen to ignore their rulings for handicap, what other rules of the game have you decided not to follow?  

After all, if you are posting improper handicap scores anyway, what difference does it matter if they were played by the rules of golf or not?  What this says to me is that maybe there is some justification in the USGA not being blindly trusting of its players to post only proper scores.  It has less to do with the integrity of the game in general than it does for the honesty of specific players - and don't try to tell me that those players don't exist. 

Okay, so then golf isn't a gentleman's sport and we can't be trusted to follow the rules on our own.  

Let's have rules officials for every foursome to make sure no one cheats since two, three or four golfers could all collude to not follow some of the rules.  

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Let's have rules officials for every foursome to make sure no one cheats since two, three or four golfers could all collude to not follow some of the rules.  

He didn't say that.

And your hypothetical doesn't carry much weight. Penalties, for example, enforced after the fact are often stiffer and/or include the potential to be DQed.

[newtogolf]

21 minutes ago, iacas said:

He didn't say that.

And your hypothetical doesn't carry much weight. Penalties, for example, enforced after the fact are often stiffer and/or include the potential to be DQed.

He kind of did say that unless players that cheat walk around with shirts on that indicate they are cheaters.  

[Fourputt]

23 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Okay, so then golf isn't a gentleman's sport and we can't be trusted to follow the rules on our own.  

Let's have rules officials for every foursome to make sure no one cheats since two, three or four golfers could all collude to not follow some of the rules.  

I'm not sure you even read my post.  Essentially, what I said was that not everyone who plays the gentleman's game is a gentleman.  Most are but not all, and the USGA is still leaning in the favor of the honest player by making peer review easier while still letting players submit their own scores under the honor system.