New hazard rules or nonsense?

[loki16]

Hit a tee shot left down into a red lateral hazard. Went to drop in that area and an opponent told me the rules for a hazard had been changed and that I could come back from my point of entry as far as I wanted (as if it were a yellow hazard). 

News to me! Is this true? 

[DaveP043]

You've always been able to keep the point of entry between you and the hole, and go back as far as you like.  That applies to both regular (yellow) and red (lateral) hazards.  In neither case can you come back on the line of flight, although many people believe that to be the case.

[loki16]

Hi Dave

that would put me further into the hazard (swamp). my opponent was clearly indicating i could come back to a raised area (near the ladies' tee). I think we're crossing wires.

I'm talking about the classic regular (yellow) hazard rule that lets you come back from POE away from hole being applied to a red (lateral) hazard.

[DaveP043]

11 minutes ago, loki16 said:

Hi Dave

that would put me further into the hazard (swamp). my opponent was clearly indicating i could come back to a raised area (near the ladies' tee). I think we're crossing wires.

I'm talking about the classic regular (yellow) hazard rule that lets you come back from POE away from hole being applied to a red (lateral) hazard.

As you're describing it, your opponent was talking about coming back on the line of flight.  That's never been allowed.  Your last sentence, and my initial description, applies to both yellow and red stakes.  This is how the rule reads

Quote

If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

a.

Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b.

Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c.

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of thewater hazard equidistant from the hole.

I think your last sentence is talking about "option b".  As you can see, options A and B apply to all water hazards.  Option C is an additional option that applies only to lateral hazards.  There is no provision anywhere for coming back as far as you like unless you're keeping the "point of entry" between you and the hole.  As far as I'm aware, this rule hasn't changed in a long time.

[loki16]

Ok, I see now what you and he are/were talking about.

It was a slight dogleg left, so going away from hole from POE would indeed put me into the ladies tee box area. I was missing that.

Thanks for your help.

[DaveP043]

3 minutes ago, loki16 said:

Thanks for your help.

This is how we all learn about the rules, by encountering a new situation, and figuring out what the rules actually allow.  For a long time I've carried a copy of the rules with me, and refer to them when I have a question.  For more detail, I look up the decisions on the applicable rules.  You may want to bookmark the website for the R and A rules:

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/Rules-Explorer

I find that I learn and remember things better if I've gone to the trouble to look things up on my own.

[iacas]

In (in-bounds) water hazards you have three options:

• play it as it lies (this is often not physically possible, and occasionally disallowed)
• replay the shot from where you last hit it
• drop anywhere on a line from the last crossed point and the hole, no closer to that point

Laterals add two other options:

• Drop within two clublengths of where it last crossed
• Do the same on the opposite side of the hazard

[Fourputt]

1 hour ago, loki16 said:

Hi Dave

that would put me further into the hazard (swamp). my opponent was clearly indicating i could come back to a raised area (near the ladies' tee). I think we're crossing wires.

I'm talking about the classic regular (yellow) hazard rule that lets you come back from POE away from hole being applied to a red (lateral) hazard.

It is an allowed option if such a procedure is possible.  For most lateral water hazards it is either impossible or very impractial to use option 'b' in Rule 26-1.  These are the options -  only 'a' and 'b' are allowed for a regular (yellow) water hazard.  All 3 are allowed for a lateral water hazard.

Quote

a.

Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b.

Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c.

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of thewater hazard equidistant from the hole.

 

[natureboy]

6 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

It is an allowed option if such a procedure is possible.  For most lateral water hazards it is either impossible or very impractial to use option 'b' in Rule 26-1.  These are the options -  only 'a' and 'b' are allowed for a regular (yellow) water hazard.  All 3 are allowed for a lateral water hazard.

So using a drop zone is only by local rule then, or a condition of competition?

[loki16]

I'll add to the DZ question from natureboy, is the DZ obligatory or simply another option?

[DaveP043]

The establishment of a Drop Zone would be by local rule.  Item 6 in Appendix I to the Rules discusses suggested wordings for the local rule.  The use of a drop zone, if one is established, should generally be an option, but can be made mandatory.

[Rulesman]

Usefully, the line referred to in option (b) in the rule is now often referred to as the 'flagline'.

As in 'on a line from the flag (hole), through the reference point as far back as you like'.

The reference point being the ball when an unplayable is taken or the point of entry into a water hazard (incl lateral). 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2016 by Rulesman