Jump to content
IGNORED

New hazard rules or nonsense?


loki16
Note: This thread is 2719 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

Hit a tee shot left down into a red lateral hazard. Went to drop in that area and an opponent told me the rules for a hazard had been changed and that I could come back from my point of entry as far as I wanted (as if it were a yellow hazard). 

News to me! Is this true? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

You've always been able to keep the point of entry between you and the hole, and go back as far as you like.  That applies to both regular (yellow) and red (lateral) hazards.  In neither case can you come back on the line of flight, although many people believe that to be the case.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Hi Dave

that would put me further into the hazard (swamp). my opponent was clearly indicating i could come back to a raised area (near the ladies' tee). I think we're crossing wires.

I'm talking about the classic regular (yellow) hazard rule that lets you come back from POE away from hole being applied to a red (lateral) hazard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator
11 minutes ago, loki16 said:

Hi Dave

that would put me further into the hazard (swamp). my opponent was clearly indicating i could come back to a raised area (near the ladies' tee). I think we're crossing wires.

I'm talking about the classic regular (yellow) hazard rule that lets you come back from POE away from hole being applied to a red (lateral) hazard.

As you're describing it, your opponent was talking about coming back on the line of flight.  That's never been allowed.  Your last sentence, and my initial description, applies to both yellow and red stakes.  This is how the rule reads

Quote

If a ball is found in a water hazard or if it is known or virtually certain that a ball that has not been found is in the water hazard (whether the ball lies in water or not), the player may under penalty of one stroke:

a.

Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b.

Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c.

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of thewater hazard equidistant from the hole.

I think your last sentence is talking about "option b".  As you can see, options A and B apply to all water hazards.  Option C is an additional option that applies only to lateral hazards.  There is no provision anywhere for coming back as far as you like unless you're keeping the "point of entry" between you and the hole.  As far as I'm aware, this rule hasn't changed in a long time.

  • Upvote 1

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ok, I see now what you and he are/were talking about.

It was a slight dogleg left, so going away from hole from POE would indeed put me into the ladies tee box area. I was missing that.

Thanks for your help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator
3 minutes ago, loki16 said:

Thanks for your help.

This is how we all learn about the rules, by encountering a new situation, and figuring out what the rules actually allow.  For a long time I've carried a copy of the rules with me, and refer to them when I have a question.  For more detail, I look up the decisions on the applicable rules.  You may want to bookmark the website for the R and A rules:

http://www.randa.org/RulesEquipment/Rules/Rules-Explorer

I find that I learn and remember things better if I've gone to the trouble to look things up on my own.

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

In (in-bounds) water hazards you have three options:

  • play it as it lies (this is often not physically possible, and occasionally disallowed)
  • replay the shot from where you last hit it
  • drop anywhere on a line from the last crossed point and the hole, no closer to that point

Laterals add two other options:

  • Drop within two clublengths of where it last crossed
  • Do the same on the opposite side of the hazard

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, loki16 said:

Hi Dave

that would put me further into the hazard (swamp). my opponent was clearly indicating i could come back to a raised area (near the ladies' tee). I think we're crossing wires.

I'm talking about the classic regular (yellow) hazard rule that lets you come back from POE away from hole being applied to a red (lateral) hazard.

It is an allowed option if such a procedure is possible.  For most lateral water hazards it is either impossible or very impractial to use option 'b' in Rule 26-1.  These are the options -  only 'a' and 'b' are allowed for a regular (yellow) water hazard.  All 3 are allowed for a lateral water hazard.

Quote

a.

Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or

b.

Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or

c.

As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of thewater hazard equidistant from the hole.

 

Rick

"He who has the fastest cart will never have a bad lie."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

6 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

It is an allowed option if such a procedure is possible.  For most lateral water hazards it is either impossible or very impractial to use option 'b' in Rule 26-1.  These are the options -  only 'a' and 'b' are allowed for a regular (yellow) water hazard.  All 3 are allowed for a lateral water hazard.

So using a drop zone is only by local rule then, or a condition of competition?

Kevin

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Moderator

The establishment of a Drop Zone would be by local rule.  Item 6 in Appendix I to the Rules discusses suggested wordings for the local rule.  The use of a drop zone, if one is established, should generally be an option, but can be made mandatory.

  • Upvote 1

Dave

:callaway: Rogue SubZero Driver

:titleist: 915F 15 Fairway, 816 H1 19 Hybrid, AP2 4 iron to PW, Vokey 52, 56, and 60 wedges, ProV1 balls 
:ping: G5i putter, B60 version
 :ping:Hoofer Bag, complete with Newport Cup logo
:footjoy::true_linkswear:, and Ashworth shoes

the only thing wrong with this car is the nut behind the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Usefully, the line referred to in option (b) in the rule is now often referred to as the 'flagline'.

As in 'on a line from the flag (hole), through the reference point as far back as you like'.

The reference point being the ball when an unplayable is taken or the point of entry into a water hazard (incl lateral). 

 

 

Edited by Rulesman
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 2719 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...