My Swing (Gaetano Fasano)

[Gaetano Fasano]

I've been Playing Golf for: 4 years
My current handicap index or average score is: 22.8
My typical ball flight is: push-draw (irons) / straight-fade (Driver)
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: low hook (long/mid irons) and straight-fade (Driver)

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Videos: 

8i FO normal speed

 

8i FO slow motion 

 

8i DL sm

 

4i FO sm

 

4i DL sm

 

DW FO sm

 

DW DL sm

 

 

 

[Gaetano Fasano]

Now I'm working on keeping the head and upper torso not moving forward during transition. When I make a practice swing without the ball, I can keep the head still and move the lower body first to initiate the swing but as soon as the ball is on the way I tend to make a bit longer backswing and start to transfer the weight on the left (too soon?!) when the clubhead has almost reached the top (backswing not finished yet). I'am going to post some swing soon to better explain my issue.

Cheers

[Hatchman]

A little closer too.  Nice full swing.

[Gaetano Fasano]

1 hour ago, Gaetano Fasano said:

I'am going to post some swing soon to better explain my issue.

Ok, below there are two swings (with ball and without ball). Note how my head and upper torso is moving forward when the ball is in play! I can't understand why the ball change my movements so drastically (note how my head stay nicely stedy up to almost A8 when the ball is not my concern)

With ball:

With no ball:

Any advice is appreciated!

[RandallT]

Very related to this idea I was writing to Jon:

Your head looks very steady without the ball, but it definitely translates quite a bit forward when you are striking a ball.

This is the fun part of moving your swing changes from your practice swings to eventually have the work unconsciously on the course. Good luck! Sorry I don't have answers, but if you figure it out, let us know. I think the answer lies somewhere in the area of letting go and trusting your natural "no ball" movements to just work.

Also, you might enjoy this thread. Your have "conscious competence" with your head movement, and trying to move to "unconscious competence."

 

 

[Hatchman]

3 hours ago, Gaetano Fasano said:

Now I'm working on keeping the head and upper torso not moving forward during transition. When I make a practice swing without the ball, I can keep the head still and move the lower body first to initiate the swing but as soon as the ball is on the way I tend to make a bit longer backswing and start to transfer the weight on the left (too soon?!) when the clubhead has almost reached the top (backswing not finished yet). I'am going to post some swing soon to better explain my issue.

Cheers

I hope I understand your description.  When you are over the ball you initiate the downswing by moving the lower body first before the backswing is finished while making a longer back swing.  Swing mechanics require various elements that the better swing technicians or instructors here can point out.  But if not sliding the hips forward is done to help initiate the downswing it might cause an out of plane club path to the ball.  

[mvmac]

I'd check this drill out. You're looking a little like the left pic. Easier to keep the head centered if the turning rates are good.

[Gaetano Fasano]

Hello @mvmac and thank you for the advice.

I think this drill can definitely help me since I've always had a lack of axis tilt and I often forget to implement it. In the past I worked with taking my right hip turning towards the the target during the backswing (+left hip going to the opposite) to stay more centered and avoiding any sway to the right; this worked in this regards since I minimized the problem. 

But I am scared of:

1.The more axis tilt I add the more I feel the low point moving backwards in my stance and the plane becoming more flat; this way it seems more difficult to me hitting the ball before the turf (I already suffer of fat shots ...about 4/5 times per round) especially with 4 iron and woods where I place the ball a little more ahead in my stance.

2. With pronunced axis tilt I also feel the clubhead stucking behind me at the top (maybe i turn too much?!) and the plane too flat (at least with irons). 

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, Gaetano Fasano said:

1.The more axis tilt I add the more I feel the low point moving backwards in my stance and the plane becoming more flat; this way it seems more difficult to me hitting the ball before the turf (I already suffer of fat shots ...about 4/5 times per round) especially with 4 iron and woods where I place the ball a little more ahead in my stance.

Give it a try and film it. Big part of why you hit fat shots is because the head moves forward causing you to "throw" more in transition. I had to work on this myself, feels like you're going to fat it but with the head staying more centered, the arms are more in sync with the pivot, you can rotate and end up hitting a solid shot.

[JonMA1]

12 hours ago, Gaetano Fasano said:

1.The more axis tilt I add the more I feel the low point moving backwards in my stance and the plane becoming more flat; this way it seems more difficult to me hitting the ball before the turf (I already suffer of fat shots ...about 4/5 times per round) especially with 4 iron and woods where I place the ball a little more ahead in my stance.

2. With pronunced axis tilt I also feel the clubhead stucking behind me at the top (maybe i turn too much?!) and the plane too flat (at least with irons). 

The increased axis tilt seemed counter-intuitive when I was first instructed to do it. I don't think I would have ever thought of it. But it worked well.

As they say here so often, a change should be a bit difficult and may feel awkward or wrong. Good contact may not be immediate. Give it some time and effort.

Even with your head moving forward on the downswing, your swing looks much better than your handicap. You're doing a lot of things well, in my opinion. 

[Gaetano Fasano]

Well, this is my swing after one week of the wall drill. Thanks @mvmac, I feel the head more steady now, really happy with it and it seems I have a better SAT.

Now I feel like my head remains more stable above the inside of my trailing foot before I release the club.

I will keep on doing this drill since I still make my mistake (my upper body which moves forward) and hit it fat or hook sometimes. 

Looking at the video I also notice other staffs I don't like (have to work on) 

1) flipping during impact (I did not realize that my left wrist was cupping so much). Do you think I steel need more SAT? 

2) the heel of my trailing foot raising during the downswing too soon. I suspect that this is a cause of my problem since I feel like I push too much on the toe of my right foot during the downswing and this cause my upper body to move up (loosing some side bend) and forward (at least I think so..);  I would prefer my trailing foot rolling towards the inside through impact.

[SunkTheBirdie]

First off, I love your hip motion.

In the video I watched you really turned those hips nicely.

At P6, your hands are behind your turn. Essentially, your hands need to be in front of your right thigh at this point.  There is no time for corrections from here.   Seeing you out of position here .... "there must be problems somewhere".  :) 

I think your SAT is fine. 

The things I see are:

(1) overswing.  Your arms and hands still move alot well after your shoulder turn is all but done.  Consider shortening your swing for more consistency and likely just as much power. 

(2) hips move too much laterally in the DS. (likely because of 3, and 1 too).  See the "red pole". If you look at the pole with the red line and your left hip at P1 and P6, you'll see how much hip slide you have.  I don't know how many inches your left hip should be ahead at impact vs address ... but you must be over the suggested amount :) 

(3) overcooked right leg straightening in the BS.  (it almost looks straight).  The right leg straightens in the BS, as it has to, to get a "deep" hip turn.  But ... the "goal" is to try to get it to straighten as little as possible while turning deep.   The deeper your hip goes, inevitably the leg must straighten to get it there.  But your right leg straightens too much, especially for this shorter iron.  I also think this "overly straight" right leg, forces your hips to slide too much laterally on the DS.  Early in the DS, your hips are 

(4) likely need some work on being more "connected" where your arms don't get too behind you in the back swing and your hips don't get too ahead of your body turn on the DS. 

Next time upload slow mo face on and DTL Driver swings.  It is easier to see swing faults with the bigger swing :)

Suggestions - shorter swing, less right leg straightening on the BS (try dialing back a bit your hip turn), upload new footage. 

 

Edited January 14, 2017 by SunkTheBirdie

[SunkTheBirdie]

"flipping during impact (I did not realize that my left wrist was cupping so much)".

You have to flip because your hands are so far behind your turn.  It is a way of shallowing the angle of attack with your hands.  A good DTL view will show you too steep.  The right heel will look better when all the other parts are working better.  

I tried your super deep hip turn, a powerful move for you could be to start straightening your left knee in the downswing earlier.  Really push off the ground much harder and earlier.   With your hip turn you really give the opportunity to push off the ground hard !  it also has the effect of preventing your hip sliding laterally, instead it gets your left hip moving *AWAY* from the ball target line .. NOT parallel to it :)

 

 

[JonMA1]

Here's a pretty good thread that @mvmac shared regarding the trail leg @Gaetano Fasano.

I'm not knowledgeable or skilled enough to make suggestions on anyone's swing, but I'd love to be able to pull off some of the keys you're accomplishing in your last video.

[Gaetano Fasano]

 

@SunkTheBirdie thank you very much for your comments. I really appreciated the time you spent for me. Your long comment deserves a adequate reply:

I am sure there is much more staffs to improve respect to what I see in the video above; I just started to work on the ones I "felt" more important. Regarding your comments:

(1) I agree, I overswing when the ball is on the ground, I'd prefer the arms would stop earlier. However, if you look at my video with no ball (07 Jan 2017) you'll notice I don't. Hence I suppose my overswing is more the result of something else; why this difference, any guess?

(2) is there any typical amount? I checked some pro videos and it seems that my lead hip actually slide more respect them. I just try to move my weight to the left and then rotate on a firm left side but maybe I should think of rotating more from the top?!

(3) Yep, I also think it seems a bit extreme. I suppose that is coming from the wall drill (still trying to ingrain). Usually I tend to extend that leg in the BS (to facilitate my hips rotation) but avoid locking it. Here I'm just trying not to slide the right hip backward (which I mange to). I think my right leg should extend as much as possible without locking. Thanks @JonMA1 for the link  I already read it once (before your suggestion) and I'm going to read it again. SunkTB what do think about Jon's link? you seems to be in contradiction with it:

On 14/1/2017 at 8:10 PM, SunkTheBirdie said:

the "goal" is to try to get it to straighten as little as possible while turning deep

SunkTB would please finish the sentence?

On 14/1/2017 at 8:10 PM, SunkTheBirdie said:

Early in the DS, your hips are ...

 

(4) What do you exactly mean with "connected"? Do you mean avoid moving the arms up in the BS?

As far as I know, it means: lead arm more linked to the chest at the top and during the DS (more of a one-plane-swing concept). In a connected swing, the lead arm is dragged by chest rotation during the DS (feeling pressure at PP4), with less downward movement of the arms.

Crossing my chest, my lead arm should always be in front of me (am I wrong?). Do you refer to my right arm getting behind me? Concerning the hips too ahead, I think this is similar to point (2) above.

Quote

Next time upload slow mo face on and DTL Driver swings.  It is easier to see swing faults with the bigger swing :)

DW swings are already posted above , had a look?

Quote

Suggestions - shorter swing, less right leg straightening on the BS (try dialing back a bit your hip turn)

Would you suggest the same to Phil Mickelson and Dustin Johnson? wow, they look pretty impressive to me.

 

I notated that a longer BS takes me to definitely longer shots but it's more difficult to coordinate/timing (I feel like I need to wait more at the top before starting the DS in order not to slide/hook).

I tried shorter BS, they are easier, I agree.  Sometimes they take me to thin it.

Quote

You have to flip because your hands are so far behind your turn.  It is a way of shallowing the angle of attack with your hands.  A good DTL view will show you too steep.  The right heel will look better when all the other parts are working better.  

Lots to study here. I'm reading all the posts already written in this site but it takes some time; I will revert back to you asap. for the time being, my personal opinion is that I stop rotate my lead shoulder during (or just before) impact loosing PP4 too soon; if it would keep its rotation, the upward movement should keep the the clubhead lagging. Looking at my videos, it seems to me that the impact is not so bad (lead arm and shaft almost straight) but just after my left wrist cup and I don't like that. My impression is that I just have to let the right wrist rolling over the left better.. but really, I do feel I need a better understanding here.

Quote

I tried your super deep hip turn, a powerful move for you could be to start straightening your left knee in the downswing earlier.  Really push off the ground much harder and earlier.   With your hip turn you really give the opportunity to push off the ground hard !  it also has the effect of preventing your hip sliding laterally, instead it gets your left hip moving *AWAY* from the ball target line .. NOT parallel to it :)

Wow, I'am gonna try it but timing seems not easy at all. Would you suggest starting the DS with this in mind?

Finally, May I ask which level of play are you? I'd love seeing a video of you trying the left foot pushing move  

Cheers

[Gaetano Fasano]

On 1/14/2017 at 8:32 PM, SunkTheBirdie said:

Really push off the ground much harder and earlier

When I do this, I generally loose my head steadyness. The more I push on my left foot during the DS, the more my upper body moves forward. I understand that this move can provide me more power but it's difficult to control. Should I push more towards the toe or the heel of my lead foot?

Cheers

[Marty2019]

For a 22 handicap, you have a really nice swing.   I agree that there's a little too much backswing.  But I think you've got the elements of a really fine swing.  

 

 

[Gaetano Fasano]

Thank you @Marty2019

I think my BS gets longer when the ball is on the ground. Without the ball in play I can make much better movements because I manage in releasing my momentum towards the flag (focus is well after usual ball position). Instead, when the ball is there, it becomes my target and I start to over-swing like my brain felt a shorter distance to the target for releasing my lag.

Fat shots and some shanks with short irons happens when I focus on the ball. This is my actual idea and that's why my hcp is still so high. Generally I make good shots but I make many mistakes too.

However, the wall drill is having very good effects. My last I6:

My head is much more steady now and the flipping is a bit better. I still don't like my finish because the hands go very low and around me in the follow through. When I release well to the flag they go more vertical from down to up and finish much higher.

Any drill to improve momentum release towards the flag and forget of the ball on the ground?