NCAA Suspends 5 College Baseball Players for Fantasy Football

[mistermuhl]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/ncaa-suspends-five-richmond-baseball-players-for-playing-fantasy-football/

to me, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen and it speaks to the pettyness of the NCAA 

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

to me, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen and it speaks to the pettyness of the NCAA 

Why?

The NCAA has a pretty strict "no gambling" policy.

Everyone's made VERY aware of this.

[mistermuhl]

8 minutes ago, iacas said:

Why?

The NCAA has a pretty strict "no gambling" policy.

Everyone's made VERY aware of this.

Because rather than focusing on more pressing issues within college athletics(football at major programs) they choose to go after a small program for guys participating in an unpaid fantasy league. They did not make money from their participation in athletics. They simply played fantasy (NFL) football. I'm not saying that the rules aren't clearly stated, I'm just saying that for the NCAA to make such a big deal about that with other things running rampant, it just tells me that it's a truly screwed up system. 

This is coming from someone who played 4 years of college baseball and got to experience a lot of the stupidity first hand. 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

Because rather than focusing on more pressing issues within college athletics(football at major programs) they choose to go after a small program for guys participating in an unpaid fantasy league.

It's not an either/or thing. Doing this isn't preventing them from "focusing on more pressing issues."

6 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

They did not make money from their participation in athletics. They simply played fantasy (NFL) football. I'm not saying that the rules aren't clearly stated, I'm just saying that for the NCAA to make such a big deal about that with other things running rampant, it just tells me that it's a truly screwed up system.

Ultimately you could be gambling on things that affect your play.

The simple facts are that the NCAA sees these as gambling, and there's a ban on gambling, in part because players could be incentivized to throw games or bet on games in which they play a role.

I think if you want to be an NCAA athlete, you don't gamble for a few years. Simple.

And I coach an NCAA team. I have to know and follow these rules too. And we're just Division III, where it really doesn't matter much, because NOBODY is gambling on us…

[mistermuhl]

Just now, iacas said:

 

Ultimately you could be gambling on things that affect your play.

The simple facts are that the NCAA sees these as gambling, and there's a ban on gambling, in part because players could be incentivized to throw games or bet on games in which they play a role.

And I get that wholeheartedly. But these guys weren't gambling on anything. Plus it had nothing to do with college sports. It was an unpaid league dealing with the NFL. 

 

Also, how can they do this and then turn around and encourage march madness brackets. I get that it isn't the same but it feels hypocritical to suspend guys for this but then on the same hand push brackets so hard. 

It just seems like an excessively broad stroke to paint with. These players who have grinded their butts off and worked harder than you can possibly imagine now have to have it taken away (temporarily) because the NCAA has a problem with them being in an unpaid league? That to me screams petty and unfair.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

And I get that wholeheartedly. But these guys weren't gambling on anything. Plus it had nothing to do with college sports. It was an unpaid league dealing with the NFL. 

The NCAA regards daily fantasy sports as gambling.

They were gambling.

4 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

Also, how can they do this and then turn around and encourage march madness brackets. I get that it isn't the same but it feels hypocritical to suspend guys for this but then on the same hand push brackets so hard. 

The players aren't betting on (or against) themselves.

[Golfingdad]

7 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

And I get that wholeheartedly. But these guys weren't gambling on anything. Plus it had nothing to do with college sports. It was an unpaid league dealing with the NFL. 

 

Also, how can they do this and then turn around and encourage march madness brackets. I get that it isn't the same but it feels hypocritical to suspend guys for this but then on the same hand push brackets so hard. 

I can see how you might have a problem with the rule - it is pretty silly and their promotion of the March Madness pool can come across as pretty hypocritical - however, I don't see how you can have a problem with the enforcement of the rule in this case.  It couldn't be any more cut and dried:

Quote

“You are not eligible to compete if you knowingly participate in any sports wagering activity that involves intercollegiate, amateur or professional athletics, through a bookmaker, a parlay card or any other method employed by organized gambling. Examples of sports wagering include, but are not limited to, the use of a bookmaker or parlay card; internet sports wagering; auctions in which bids are placed on teams, individuals or contests; and pools or Fantasy leagues in which an entry fee is required.”

By the way, nowhere in the article does it say that it was an "unpaid" league, and, in fact, the rule it cites specifically refers to fantasy leagues with entry fees.  I don't know where you got that part from because based on the info from your link it sounds like they were gambling with money.

[mistermuhl]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

The NCAA regards daily fantasy sports as gambling.

They were gambling.

The players aren't betting on (or against) themselves.

Not going by the rule book, how do you feel about it personally? Do you really think that the suspension is justifiable? 

I'm not sure if I understand your second point. The players who just got suspended also weren't betting on themselves. The bracket should be a more controversial issue than professional fantasy sports since people can know these players personally and know if they are hurting or sick or whatever, thus a larger chance at foul play

9 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

I can see how you might have a problem with the rule - it is pretty silly and their promotion of the March Madness pool can come across as pretty hypocritical - however, I don't see how you can have a problem with the enforcement of the rule in this case.  It couldn't be any more cut and dried:

By the way, nowhere in the article does it say that it was an "unpaid" league, and, in fact, the rule it cites specifically refers to fantasy leagues with entry fees.  I don't know where you got that part from because based on the info from your link it sounds like they were gambling with money.

I agree that the rule is cut and dried. I'm not really debating the legality of it. I am more concerned with the pettiness of it. 

And a guy I play with now went there and we were discussing it today he said that the league was unpaid. I'm not saying that it is guaranteed fact, I'm simply saying that based on my information, I feel that NCAA is splitting hairs. 

To take eligibility from guys who have lived and breathed baseball for their whole lives for participating in fantasy football feels insane. 

 

Just to clarify, I get that they technically broke a rule. I'm more just saying it bothers me that that for something that is a completely innocent thing to do, they are getting ripped. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by mistermuhl

[Wanzo]

Fantasy football is not gambling, it's skill.  .  My two cents, including fantasy professional sports in the rule is dumb, but you have to draw the line somewhere.  If these baseball players were playing golf and had a skins game going is that gambling?  They broke a rule they knew, or at least should know, so I have no problem with the enforcement. 

[Golfingdad]

9 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

Not going by the rule book, how do you feel about it personally? Do you really think that the suspension is justifiable? 

I'm not sure if I understand your second point. The players who just got suspended also weren't betting on themselves. The bracket should be a more controversial issue than professional fantasy sports since people can know these players personally and know if they are hurting or sick or whatever, thus a larger chance at foul play

I agree that the rule is cut and dried. I'm not really debating the legality of it. I am more concerned with the pettiness of it. 

And a guy I play with now went there and we were discussing it today he said that the league was unpaid. I'm not saying that it is guaranteed fact, I'm simply saying that based on my information, I feel that NCAA is splitting hairs. 

To take eligibility from guys who have lived and breathed baseball for their whole lives for participating in fantasy football feels insane. 

 

Just to clarify, I get that they technically broke a rule. I'm more just saying it bothers me that that for something that is a completely innocent thing to do, they are getting ripped. 

It's not completely innocent though because .... THEY KNEW THE RULE GOING IN.  (And if they didn't then their coach and school failed them)  It's really that simple.

The pettiness of the rule (where I'd quite likely agree with you - the NCAA has a lot of those) is an ENTIRELY different discussion.

[mistermuhl]

2 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

 

The pettiness of the rule (where I'd quite likely agree with you - the NCAA has a lot of those) is an ENTIRELY different discussion.

 That's more of the discussion I'm aiming for. When a sentence is passed it becomes fairly straightforward. 

[iacas]

16 minutes ago, mistermuhl said:

I'm not sure if I understand your second point.

Random people making a March madness bracket are not gambling on themselves. They're not NCAA athletes. They're just random people in an office or whatever.

Duke's head coach can't legally enter an NCAA March Madness pool. Heck, even I can't legally do it as an NCAA Division III Golf Coach.

[NCGolfer]

While I think it's stupid that these kids got suspended for playing fantasy football and I generally hate the NCAA and their sometimes-uneven heavy hand I think there is another part of the issue that goes into this.

The NCAA wants NOTHING to do with gambling or introducing any potential for it to make its way into the lives of its athletes.  If they truly want nothing to do with it then they have to ban it all together.  No exceptions.

Their fear is that if they leave a crack open then one of their athletes...say a basketball player might get into a modest debt to someone.  That someone asks said player to shave a few points.  You can see how this could spiral.  The potential for a golfer (even a baseball player) to be compromised is a lot less since there is little to no action on those games.  The NCAA still has to apply the rule to all athletes and coaches.

I'm going to go off-topic here and go into diatribes about other crappy things about the NCAA but, on this point, I'm not sure there is anything they can do.  Stupid?  Yes.  Necessary?  Possibly.

[iacas]

7 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

While I think it's stupid that these kids got suspended for playing fantasy football and I generally hate the NCAA and their sometimes-uneven heavy hand I think there is another part of the issue that goes into this.

The NCAA wants NOTHING to do with gambling or introducing any potential for it to make its way into the lives of its athletes.  If they truly want nothing to do with it then they have to ban it all together.  No exceptions.

Their fear is that if they leave a crack open then one of their athletes...say a basketball player might get into a modest debt to someone.  That someone asks said player to shave a few points.  You can see how this could spiral.  The potential for a golfer (even a baseball player) to be compromised is a lot less since there is little to no action on those games.  The NCAA still has to apply the rule to all athletes and coaches.

I'm going to go off-topic here and go into diatribes about other crappy things about the NCAA but, on this point, I'm not sure there is anything they can do.  Stupid?  Yes.  Necessary?  Possibly.

Pretty much how I see it.

[Golfingdad]

11 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

The NCAA wants NOTHING to do with gambling or introducing any potential for it to make its way into the lives of its athletes.  If they truly want nothing to do with it then they have to ban it all together.  No exceptions.

Great post in its entirety.  Regarding the above, though, this is where I understand where @mistermuhl is coming from.  They could be a lot more consistent on this front if they left the promotion of March Madness pools up to others and stayed away from that themselves.

Otherwise, it's easy to see how this comes across as hypocritical.

[freshmanUTA]

53 minutes ago, iacas said:

The NCAA regards daily fantasy sports as gambling.

They were gambling.

The players aren't betting on (or against) themselves.

Isn't it true that onsome websitesif you predict the bracket right you win $1,000,000? Even if you just do it on the NCAA website, filling out a bracket fits the definition of gambling.  

I agree with you that the rule is the rule, and if you wanna play in the NCAA you should suck it up and not enter for a few years, but the NCAA is pretty hypocritical about pushing march madness but not fantasy football. Especially when it's a free league.

[NCGolfer]

3 minutes ago, Golfingdad said:

They could be a lot more consistent on this front if they left the promotion of March Madness pools up to others and stayed away from that themselves.

Otherwise, it's easy to see how this comes across as hypocritical.

I can't argue against this point.  While I think that they don't promote official pools as much as sites like CBS, ESPN and Yahoo, they still feed the frenzy and talk about things like statistics of who makes the final fours, tips on how to fill out your bracket, etc.  The NCAA basketball championship is their #1 revenue maker so they want to promote it as much as they can.  It's such a huge animal that all they really need to do is release the bracket and let the media do the rest.

It is a very fine line they walk but everyone knows which part of that line the NCAA will favor...the one with the most $$$.

 

7 minutes ago, freshmanUTA said:

Isn't it true that onsome websitesif you predict the bracket right you win $1,000,000? Even if you just do it on the NCAA website, filling out a bracket fits the definition of gambling.  

That is through ESPN (I believe), not the NCAA.  If the NCAA was giving out $1M on their site I'd have an issue with that.  They can't control what ESPN or any other site does.

[freshmanUTA]

4 minutes ago, NCGolfer said:

That is through ESPN (I believe), not the NCAA.  If the NCAA was giving out $1M on their site I'd have an issue with that.  They can't control what ESPN or any other site does.

Yeah there's millions of places that offer large sums, Warren Buffet even offers the winner money.

I thought you were able to fill out a bracket on NCAA's website? I know it would be free and not for money, but that's what my point was about fantasy football. If the NCAA doesn't have a march madness bracket then forget what I said.