My Swing (jcspigler2010)

[jcspigler2010]

I've been Playing Golf for: 4 years
My current handicap index or average score is 15-16
My typical ball flight is: draw
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: duck hook

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Decided to post in the correct place!

I have been working on my driver tirelessly.  Its definitely holding my game back.  I strike my irons really well.  Compress the ball, take divots and feel confident when I'm standing over the ball before a shot.  My driver on the other hand is sporadic, inconsistent, frustrating and a huge barrier in my goal to lower my handicap.  After posting in the wrong place venting about my fruitless journey of finding my driver swing, I was directed here for help :)  Thanks @mvmac for the instruction!!

@mvmac , I have looked into the issue with my head dropping forward on my back swing.  I think this is relevant in all my clubs, just exacerbates as my clubs get longer. Obviously most prevalent in the driver.  I watched your center pivot video about 10 times and studied how Mac keeps his head steady and rotates his left should towards his sternum/center point of the swing.  The HUGE part for me was the left arm extension about 1/3 maybe half way through the back swing.  My previous instructor always said "keep the club out in front of you longer".... Well when I would do this, my swing would come disjointed from the rest of my body and I would end up coming over the top and well you know the rest, SLICE.  This concept of a center point pivot and EXTENDing the left arm and shoulder in effect kept the club out in front of me longer.  It got me on a more up right swing plane.  It also reduced the amount of head drop in my driver.  Now, I'm still working on this and will continue to work on it every day.  Its a hard feeling to fully grasp because I still want to drop the club behind me and resort to my old ways.  @mvmac, if you have any drills or suggestions on practicing this center pivot concept without actually being at the range, that would be awesome!

Another thing I am working on which I think plagues all golfers good and bad, is letting the hands get ahead of the body.  I am still working really hard on not just initiating the swing with the left hip turning counter clock wise, but keeping it turning so my hands don't get ahead of my body and QUACK QUACK, duck hook...  

Below is the latest swing using this center pivot concept.  This was probably the best swing of the day for me other than the very last one which I don't have on camera.  I can't get a head on view unfortunately because the bay is wayyy too narrow.  

@mvmac thanks again for the help on both TST and this swing concept!

 

PS. I apologize for the blinkiness of the driver head.  Youtube editor borked my video up when I was editing it.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by RandallT
Moved standard block to top. Carry on.

[boogielicious]

28 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

Decided to post in the correct place!

I have been working on my driver tirelessly.  Its definitely holding my game back.  I strike my irons really well.  Compress the ball, take divots and feel confident when I'm standing over the ball before a shot.  My driver on the other hand is sporadic, inconsistent, frustrating and a huge barrier in my goal to lower my handicap.  After posting in the wrong place venting about my fruitless journey of finding my driver swing, I was directed here for help :)  Thanks @mvmac for the instruction!!

 

@mvmac , I have looked into the issue with my head dropping forward on my back swing.  I think this is relevant in all my clubs, just exacerbates as my clubs get longer. Obviously most prevalent in the driver.  I watched your center pivot video about 10 times and studied how Mac keeps his head steady and rotates his left should towards his sternum/center point of the swing.  The HUGE part for me was the left arm extension about 1/3 maybe half way through the back swing.  My previous instructor always said "keep the club out in front of you longer".... Well when I would do this, my swing would come disjointed from the rest of my body and I would end up coming over the top and well you know the rest, SLICE.  This concept of a center point pivot and EXTENDing the left arm and shoulder in effect kept the club out in front of me longer.  It got me on a more up right swing plane.  It also reduced the amount of head drop in my driver.  Now, I'm still working on this and will continue to work on it every day.  Its a hard feeling to fully grasp because I still want to drop the club behind me and resort to my old ways.  @mvmac, if you have any drills or suggestions on practicing this center pivot concept without actually being at the range, that would be awesome!

Another thing I am working on which I think plagues all golfers good and bad, is letting the hands get ahead of the body.  I am still working really hard on not just initiating the swing with the left hip turning counter clock wise, but keeping it turning so my hands don't get ahead of my body and QUACK QUACK, duck hook...  

Below is the latest swing using this center pivot concept.  This was probably the best swing of the day for me other than the very last one which I don't have on camera.  I can't get a head on view unfortunately because the bay is wayyy too narrow.  

@mvmac thanks again for the help on both TST and this swing concept!

 

PS. I apologize for the blinkiness of the driver head.  Youtube editor borked my video up when I was editing it.

 

I've been Playing Golf for: 4 years
My current handicap index or average score is 15-16
My typical ball flight is: draw
The shot I hate or the "miss" I'm trying to reduce/eliminate is: duck hook

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Videos: 

[Delete this, Embed Videos Here]

Have the camera align with your toe line instead of the ball. It makes it a lot easier to see the position of the hands, shaft, head in the back and down swings.

[jcspigler2010]

20 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Have the camera align with your toe line instead of the ball. It makes it a lot easier to see the position of the hands, shaft, head in the back and down swings.

Thanks for the tip boogie.  I'll do this on my next film.

[mvmac]

5 hours ago, jcspigler2010 said:

I have looked into the issue with my head dropping forward on my back swing.  I think this is relevant in all my clubs, just exacerbates as my clubs get longer. Obviously most prevalent in the driver.  I watched your center pivot video about 10 times and studied how Mac keeps his head steady and rotates his left should towards his sternum/center point of the swing.

To me working on how the body moves to fix the head is still the priority. I'm going to try and put something together for you to explain further.

In the meantime, this might be a another post to look at for the backswing stuff.

5 hours ago, jcspigler2010 said:

 @mvmac, if you have any drills or suggestions on practicing this center pivot concept without actually being at the range, that would be awesome!

Here's what I said in the other thread,

Quote

Here's how I'd start to go about changing things, can do this at home. Set-up facing a wall with your forehead an inch or so away. Make practice backswings with your hands on your shoulders. Feel what you need to do to make sure the head doesn't contact the wall. Then film yourself practicing that feel with a club in your hands and see if/how that changes the picture. Use that feel when you're hitting balls.

 

5 hours ago, jcspigler2010 said:

The HUGE part for me was the left arm extension about 1/3 maybe half way through the back swing.

Feels can vary from player to player but for that piece I do want to recommend focusing on the right arm/hand rather than the left arm for the extension. Feel like the right arm doesn't flex past 90 degrees or that the right hand is "pushing" away the left hand. This will also help the right arm stay more "in front" of you.

5 hours ago, jcspigler2010 said:

Another thing I am working on which I think plagues all golfers good and bad, is letting the hands get ahead of the body.

I don't see that being an issue with you but maybe I'm not understanding what you mean by this. If anything the upper right arm gets a little "trapped" behind you (early downswing).

Arms don't look ahead of the body to me here.

[jcspigler2010]

Thanks for the response @mvmac.  The swing I posted was one where my arms didn't get ahead of my body.  This ball flew straight and true.  It does happen occasionally where I rush the downswing and hook it.

I will try the wall drill to start off.  

10 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Feel like the right arm doesn't flex past 90 degrees or that the right hand is "pushing" away the left hand.

I'm a bit confused by this quote.  I can make sense of the 90 degree rule but what do you mean by feel as if the right hand is "pushing" away the left?

[mvmac]

12 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

I'm a bit confused by this quote.  I can make sense of the 90 degree rule but what do you mean by feel as if the right hand is "pushing" away the left?

Take your grip, your right hand/palm will be touching your left hand.  Where they're touching, imagine you are trying to push the left hand away with the right palm. Let me know if you're still not sure what I mean.

[jcspigler2010]

2 minutes ago, mvmac said:

Take your grip, your right hand/palm will be touching your left hand.  Where they're touching, imagine you are trying to push the left hand away with the right palm. Let me know if you're still not sure what I mean.

Do this while keeping the 90 degree bend in the right arm?

[mvmac]

21 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

Do this while keeping the 90 degree bend in the right arm?

If you do it then the arm won't over bend. So you can do either feels, whatever fits you best.

[mvmac]

Let me know if you have any questions @jcspigler2010

 

[jcspigler2010]

 

@mvmac first and foremost thank you for taking the time to make that video for me and help me on this journey.  Wanted to provide an update on my driver swing.  

I have been practicing the wall drill over the last couple days, doing it in 1 minute segments.  I have also worked on the feeling of the right hand pushing away the left.  Not so much trying to keep the left arm straight but use opposing force from the right to keep it straight.  I have also worked on center pivot and trying to rotate the left should to where the sternum notch is, ultimately reducing the head dipping forward.  I still have a slit dip but have improved dramatically (in my humble opinion).   Practicing these moves have made me appreciate how much the pros can rotate in their backswing and stay in form.  It takes ALOT of balance, discipline, flexibility and core strength.

My driver swing has taken on a new form (I think) and I feel CONFIDENT when addressing the ball with the lumber.  I feel like the driver gets into a much better position at the top of the back swing and I'm not forcing to keep it out in front of me.  Its natural how it rotates to the top using the mentioned above.  I probably hit ~ 40 balls with my driver.  My biggest miss was a pull, which was due to being a bit quick from the top and coming across the target line.  Everything else was center face, solid and either straight or a bit of a fade.  I even hit a couple of draws.  Beautiful right to left flight.  I was ecstatic!  I noticed if I supinate (bow) the wrist at the top, I make better contact but the ball goes a bit to the left.  Something I'll work on.  See the following for my current driver swing.  Again, sorry for not being able to get a head on shot.  Someone was in the bay next to me so i couldn't commandeer it to take a head on shot.  I tried doing more of a toe line shot in this one.  

 

But with the good comes the bad....

After crushing multiple drives down the middle and walking on cloud 9, I decided to play my favorite course (in my head) by simulating shots I would do hole to hole.  Started off with crushing my opening drive down the middle.  I then pulled out my 7 iron....

... I have never duck hooked an iron so bad in my life.  It duck hooked to the point that I was surprised looking at the ball flight.  The contact was crisp and clean and I expected to look up and see a nice penetrating ball flight.  Instead I see my ball going left and keeeeep going left.  I am now applying this swing thought (center pivot) to all my clubs not just my driver so maybe this has uncovered a flaw in my previous approach to my iron swing.  I have weakened my grip and re assessed my face angle.  I was able to hit some good good iron shots with a straight flight or maybe a bit of a draw but it DOESN'T feel normal.   I think my face was a bit closed before.  Since I would take the club to the inside so much before, I would come over the top just a bit and the club face would be square to the target line (obviously my theory).  So looks like I have another thing to work on :)  See the following video.  Any help @mvmac would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by jcspigler2010

[mvmac]

54 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

 I probably hit ~ 40 balls with my driver.  My biggest miss was a pull, which was due to being a bit quick from the top and coming across the target line.  Everything else was center face, solid and either straight or a bit of a fade.  I even hit a couple of draws.  Beautiful right to left flight.  I was ecstatic! 

Good news! Nice job with the changes in a short amount of time. Yes it's a lot better with the head/pivot.

55 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

... I have never duck hooked an iron so bad in my life.  It duck hooked to the point that I was surprised looking at the ball flight.

It was one shot and you're working on some pivot changes. Your head is in a much different place than it was before so some weird ones like that are okay. Need to give yourself time to adjust.

56 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

I've weakened my grip and re assessed my face angle.  I was able to hit some good good iron shots with a straight flight or maybe a bit of a draw but it DOESN'T feel normal.   I think my face was a bit closed before.  Since I would take the club to the inside so much before, I would come over the top just a bit and the club face would be square to the target line (obviously my theory).  So looks like I have another thing to work on :)

I'd be careful changing so much based on a few shots. When you're working on your swing, where the ball is going is secondary to making sure you're doing your piece properly. Bad shots don't necessarily mean bad swings. That's why it's important to film swings, the goal is to change the picture.

Good thread for you to read.

Also understand that whether it's a good shot or bad shot, both swings will basically look the same.

 

1 hour ago, jcspigler2010 said:

lp @mvmac would be greatly appreciated.

Hands/butt of the club is too close to you, can see how the arms are angled towards you instead of away from you.

Compare that with the pics here.

Long term you'll have to address how the shaft steepens on the downswing and the club gets outside the hands when the shaft is parallel to the ground but I think that will improve as you clean up the arms at set-up and pivot.

[jcspigler2010]

Helloooo alll!!!

Been a while since I've posted on my swing forum so figured I would update everyone...

I have been working ALOT on not just my driver swing but my golf swing in general.

But I started this forum because of my driver swing.  This is what it currently looks like. I apologize for the terrible angle.  Was hoping to get a better one today but rain...

One thing I realized after my round this past weekend... I was gripping way too HARD.  I thought I had a light grip on the club but no way!  I was dramatically inhibiting me from swinging correctly and actually causing alot of un needed muscle stress in my neck and shoulders.  I had to take off a couple days because I actually pulled something in my shoulders.  I don't know what I was watching or thinking but I decided to REALLY lighten my grip strength.  Its amazing the consistency I started having.  Can't wait to play my next round with all that I've been practicing! 

 

 

Oh final thing...

I did not realize how much I wasn't turning my shoulders and really coiling up on my back swing.   I've started trying to get my back to face the target and its had some great results.

[SunkTheBirdie]

Any face on video ? 

[DaveP043]

27 minutes ago, jcspigler2010 said:

One thing I realized after my round this past weekend... I was gripping way too HARD.  I thought I had a light grip on the club but no way!  I was dramatically inhibiting me from swinging correctly and actually causing alot of un needed muscle stress in my neck and shoulders.  I had to take off a couple days because I actually pulled something in my shoulders.  I don't know what I was watching or thinking but I decided to REALLY lighten my grip strength.  Its amazing the consistency I started having.  Can't wait to play my next round with all that I've been practicing! 

You may want to read through this thread about grip pressure.  You actually need to grip the club pretty securely, but try to avoid letting that put tension into your forearms and higher.

Congratulations on your progress so far, keep it up!

[jcspigler2010]

24 minutes ago, SunkTheBirdie said:

Any face on video ? 

Bays are narrow at the range.  Can't do head on.

[Jack Watson]

Proper grip pressure is very important to find.  Personal thing.