Driver shaft-weight/swing-weight

[Let it Fly]

Went in to pick up my new irons last night, and did an initial driver fitting while there, too.  I've only recently begun to scratch the surface of understanding the effects of shafts, weights, etc.  During the fitting, I realized that I really didn't know what I was looking for or even what questions to ask regarding types of shafts, shaft weight, and the effects they have on ball flight.  The fitter is a renowned outfit here in New England, and I was actually working with the owner...who is/was a huge help so no issues there.  I decided not to make a purchase last night, as I first want to understand it better.  Also wasn't swinging too well, which resulted in inconsistent data.

My question/inquiry for my friends here at TST:  What are the pro's & con's of lighter driver shafts vs. heavier ones? Figured I'd ask around here before doing the ol' fashioned Google search.

As info from a personal standpoint:

- Current driver is original Taylormade R11 with a 60g, 45", X-flex shaft in it (cannot remember the brand and stupidly left it at home today)

- Avg. clubhead speed during baseline swings with my driver was 113-115mph

- Tested a number of different models...liked the look & feel of Epic and M2 the best

- Tested various shafts at 75g, 45", X-flex & stiff flex (fitter recommendation).  These all felt very heavy to me (compared to current at least), and clubhead speed dropped to average around 109-110mph

- Not primarily chasing more distance as current length is very serviceable...consistency/dispersion improvement is priority #1

 

Just trying to learn some more here so that I've got a better handle on it.  Need to put in some more work to correct my swing path before going back, which is coming too far from the inside right now in the range of 7-8 degrees.  Sorry for the novel, and thanks in advance for any insight!  

[Let it Fly]

Follow-up question:  

Anyone have experience changing grips on current clubs from standard to mid-size...and effects (or lack there-of) you saw from it?  

In the event I don't make driver change, I'd get the current one re-gripped from standard to mid-size to match my new iron set (would do the same with current 4W and hybrid).  My, admittedly uneducated, take is that different grip sizes throughout the bag would have a more negative impact than any changes in overall club weight from thicker grips would....

 

[WUTiger]

Ultimate law of clubfitting: Clubfitting involves trade-offs.

From past articles in Golf Digest, is appears that lightweight shafts do the most good for players with a well-grooved swing. The average players that lightweights were expected to help most sometimes have trouble feeling the club at the top, and may overswing and have trouble dropping the club into the slot with lightweights.

I wasted an entire season trying to hit the RBZ FWs with the 45-gram shaft when they first came out. The good news was I hit a lot of shots a long way, but several of them were left misses I never found. The RBZ Stage 2 moved up to a 60-gram shaft as its stock tube.

An old fitter's rule: Go with the lightest shaft which you can control.

Another thing to consider besides weight is balance. Rather than just offering an overall flex, some long-club shafts now have codes that explain the flex dynamics at different points along the shaft. Check out Miyazaki site, which will discuss its 4-digit International Flex Codes.  

 

 

 

I know that you are focusing on driver shafts,rather than on shafts for irons. I currently have 97-gram steel shafts in my irons. That said, I have hit some graphite shafts for irons that fall in the 65- to 75-gram zone. These shafts did not feel feathery - they felt very solid. Again, weight and balance should work together.

As for grips, go with what feels best. I went from standard to midsize about three years ago, and the club fills my hand better - less fidgeting during set-up. Also, a slightly thicker grip can help if you have a tendency to hook the ball.

Also, midsize grips often weigh more than standards, which can lessen the swingweight slightly. You fitter can explain the details.

Edited April 7, 2017 by WUTiger
Remove white space under image.

[Let it Fly]

Thanks @WUTiger, appreciate the insight.  I got comfortable pretty quickly when being fitted for heavier iron shafts, but not so much with the driver.  Playing my light driver for so many years, I was unprepared for the heavier feel in a longer swing/longer club.  Not in a rush to change, so will do some work to figure out what could best suit my game.

[arturo28mx]

I'm a 60 year old mid handicapper. I use Titleist clubs. For my irons, I use lightweight shafts such as XP 95. For my woods, I use stock Diamana Red lightweight shafts. HOWEVER, for my driver, the Diamana Red was too light!!! It messed up my tempo. Diamana Blue, slightly heavier, works better for me.

For me it's very simple, I will try different weight shafts with my eyes closed and just try to FEEL which one is more natural for my swing and tempo. Hope this helps.

[boogielicious]

22 hours ago, Let it Fly said:

Went in to pick up my new irons last night, and did an initial driver fitting while there, too.  I've only recently begun to scratch the surface of understanding the effects of shafts, weights, etc.  During the fitting, I realized that I really didn't know what I was looking for or even what questions to ask regarding types of shafts, shaft weight, and the effects they have on ball flight.  The fitter is a renowned outfit here in New England, and I was actually working with the owner...who is/was a huge help so no issues there.  I decided not to make a purchase last night, as I first want to understand it better.  Also wasn't swinging too well, which resulted in inconsistent data.

My question/inquiry for my friends here at TST:  What are the pro's & con's of lighter driver shafts vs. heavier ones? Figured I'd ask around here before doing the ol' fashioned Google search.

As info from a personal standpoint:

- Current driver is original Taylormade R11 with a 60g, 45", X-flex shaft in it (cannot remember the brand and stupidly left it at home today)

- Avg. clubhead speed during baseline swings with my driver was 113-115mph

- Tested a number of different models...liked the look & feel of Epic and M2 the best

- Tested various shafts at 75g, 45", X-flex & stiff flex (fitter recommendation).  These all felt very heavy to me (compared to current at least), and clubhead speed dropped to average around 109-110mph

- Not primarily chasing more distance as current length is very serviceable...consistency/dispersion improvement is priority #1

 

Just trying to learn some more here so that I've got a better handle on it.  Need to put in some more work to correct my swing path before going back, which is coming too far from the inside right now in the range of 7-8 degrees.  Sorry for the novel, and thanks in advance for any insight!  

Roger Maltby also came up with a rating system. Golf Works uses that on their shaft inventory as a guide.

https://www.golfworks.com/mpf-shaft-ratings/a/1833/

 

[saevel25]

It depends on the golfer. Two golfers swinging 110 mph could require two different golf shaft designs. 

[1badbadger]

I'll add a few thoughts to the excellent information @WUTiger and @arturo28mx already posted.  There are a couple of general rules of thumb that hold true most of the time that might help:

• Heavier shafts tend to feel/play a little stiffer than lighter shafts, even if they are the same flex.
• In the past, most heavier shafts had lower trajectories and lighter shafts had higher trajectories.  This doesn't hold as true as it used to now.
• Low torque shafts will feel stiffer than higher torque shafts. Higher torque shafts tend to be more forgiving.
• In my experience,, higher swing speed players tend to prefer a heavier shaft to a light shaft.
• Lighter shafts are easier to swing faster, but you don't have any issues generating clubhead speed.  Unless there is a reason that hasn't been discussed, I don't think you'd benefit from a shaft in the 45-50g range.  

You mentioned you noticed a difference when you tried the 75g demos, and they felt heavy.  That is what I would expect...15g is a noticeable difference.  I don't think it's too heavy though, and would be an easy transition to make.  The heavier shaft should provide a better sense of where the club is during your swing, which is important to maintain your tempo and timing.  This will really help a player with as much swing speed as you have.  If you go with a heavier shaft, don't be afraid to make it shorter than 45".  Even if it's a small change to 44 3/4", it will be enough to make a nice difference.

As far as grips, I think having the same model and size on all clubs is important.  Moving to a midsize will reduce the swingweight by about 1 or 2 points, depending on what grip you are currently using and what grip you would replace it with.

[Let it Fly]

On 4/8/2017 at 7:54 AM, saevel25 said:

Two golfers swinging 110 mph could require two different golf shaft designs.

Good point.  We did get far enough along in the fitting where we narrowed it down to a couple different shafts that helped reduce spin, though I can't remember exactly what they were.  Fitter has the info in my file though, and plan to fool around with combinations of these shafts and the Epic/M2 heads next time in.

On 4/8/2017 at 7:57 AM, 1badbadger said:

You mentioned you noticed a difference when you tried the 75g demos, and they felt heavy.  That is what I would expect...15g is a noticeable difference.  I don't think it's too heavy though, and would be an easy transition to make.  The heavier shaft should provide a better sense of where the club is during your swing, which is important to maintain your tempo and timing.  This will really help a player with as much swing speed as you have.  If you go with a heavier shaft, don't be afraid to make it shorter than 45".  Even if it's a small change to 44 3/4", it will be enough to make a nice difference.

After having had a few days to reflect on the driver fitting process, it was definitely a case of the "archer not the arrow."  I had never realized just how light my current driver is, and absolutely lost my tempo/timing trying to light up the Trackman while testing the heavier shafts.  Lesson learned though, and the fitter was more than willing to put the brakes on that day and reschedule down the road.

In my limited experience so far (two range sessions) with the new irons and 130g Dynamic Golds, you're spot on @1badbadger in regard to an improved sense of where the club is during the swing...especially when performing slow-mo rehearsals & drills.  Woke up with some sore obliques today, too haha.  

Thanks for all the input, fellas...big help.

[1badbadger]

53 minutes ago, Let it Fly said:

Good point.  We did get far enough along in the fitting where we narrowed it down to a couple different shafts that helped reduce spin, though I can't remember exactly what they were.  Fitter has the info in my file though, and plan to fool around with combinations of these shafts and the Epic/M2 heads next time in.

After having had a few days to reflect on the driver fitting process, it was definitely a case of the "archer not the arrow."  I had never realized just how light my current driver is, and absolutely lost my tempo/timing trying to light up the Trackman while testing the heavier shafts.  Lesson learned though, and the fitter was more than willing to put the brakes on that day and reschedule down the road.

In my limited experience so far (two range sessions) with the new irons and 130g Dynamic Golds, you're spot on @1badbadger in regard to an improved sense of where the club is during the swing...especially when performing slow-mo rehearsals & drills.  Woke up with some sore obliques today, too haha.  

Thanks for all the input, fellas...big help.

Between the sore muscles and a couple of "a-ha" moments, it sounds like you've had a productive weekend!  Seriously though, when a player becomes aware of certain aspects of a club and how it can affect his swing or his ball flight, it's almost like a light was flipped on.  This is where it gets really fun, because now when you test different shafts you will have a much better understanding of the differences between models, and you will feel these differences as you hit different shafts.