My Swing (Killa)

[RandallT]

Hi @Killa. Earlier in the thread, @boogielicious linked you to a thread on club steepness in the downswing: 

I'm no instructor so I can't tell if that's the top (or first) thing to fix, but I can definitely see that you'll need to fix that at some point.

From what I've learned there, coming down steeply with the hands from the top (club steepens as hand path down is vertical-ish) leads to a lot of issues with consistency. Lots of last second manipulations are needed to make contact, and we are just not good at those instant adjustments. 

Anyway, there are tons of ideas on that thread about it, and thought it'd be good for you to revisit.

[Killa]

3 hours ago, RandallT said:

Hi @Killa. Earlier in the thread, @boogielicious linked you to a thread on club steepness in the downswing: 

I'm no instructor so I can't tell if that's the top (or first) thing to fix, but I can definitely see that you'll need to fix that at some point.

From what I've learned there, coming down steeply with the hands from the top (club steepens as hand path down is vertical-ish) leads to a lot of issues with consistency. Lots of last second manipulations are needed to make contact, and we are just not good at those instant adjustments. 

Anyway, there are tons of ideas on that thread about it, and thought it'd be good for you to revisit.

Thanks for the reminder. I have read that thread and I will reread it over the next few days.

 

I actually thought that my back and downswing were pretty much on plane in the last video I posted (backyard no ball) but now after your post I have rewatched Sergio Garcias slow mo swing and see how much exactly he shallows his downswing in comparison to his backswing and he and I are universes apart. 

I'm just hoping some of the gurus around here would chime in on what my priority focus should be, I know there are several areas where I need massive improvement. Nevertheless I feel like in the last couple of videos I posted I really like where I am in regards to Keys 1-3. Now if I could just transfer that to my hitting the ball swing - just need to follow the SSS. 

[Killa]

@RandallT on the other hand comparing this video of Tiger

with mine

 

He doesn't seem to shallow it out any more/much more than I do? Or am I watching something else?

 

 

[RandallT]

Hi @Killa. To be honest I didn't look at the swing in your yard as I thought it was without a ball. The swing I saw was in the other thread where you were talking about the difference of your swings with and without a ball. 

The iron swing with a ball was the one I viewed. From what I saw, your hand path from the top was quite vertical and you could see the club start to tip up more steep as a result. 

Thats really what prompted my note, because I can relate to that swing flaw. I'm over a year into battling that but I feel like I'm rounding the corner (a slow learner apparently!).

i learned a ton in that thread. Lots of trial and error. Dead end paths. Epiphanies that vanished. But steadily built upon it all and I think I'm finally getting there. Hand path from the top has been key for me (but that's a feel for me perhaps).

But yes, a hard part of learning golf is getting good advice on what to focus on. I couldn't say if this is your priority, as I know I had tons of posture, grip and backswing things to do first. Obviously you can't attack the steepness until you get to the top in a way that is somewhat fundamentally sound. Good luck!!!

[Killa]

On 03. julij 2017 at 2:46 PM, RandallT said:

Hi @Killa. Earlier in the thread, @boogielicious linked you to a thread on club steepness in the downswing: 

I'm no instructor so I can't tell if that's the top (or first) thing to fix, but I can definitely see that you'll need to fix that at some point.

From what I've learned there, coming down steeply with the hands from the top (club steepens as hand path down is vertical-ish) leads to a lot of issues with consistency. Lots of last second manipulations are needed to make contact, and we are just not good at those instant adjustments. 

Anyway, there are tons of ideas on that thread about it, and thought it'd be good for you to revisit.

 

I will reread this thread today, but I have decided yesterday that I will be prioritizing keys 1-3. Especially keys 2 and 3 seem to do wonders for me. If I focus on my weight forward and straight line impact position I get some real crisp high long shots that a 36 hcp isn't really supposed to have. Especially 5-10 in a row. I will still practice slow steady and deliberate to lower my steepness but I think it's not a priority right now for me. When I can consistently keep my weight and shaft forward I will tackle the steepness which is in a way related to key 4. 

 

I have also noticed that when my keys 2 and 3 align nicely I also get key 1 under control, so they come in a package for me (2+3=1 but 1 doesn't =2+3 if you know what I mean :)

[Killa]

@RandallT @boogielicious

 

So I've been working on shallowing. This is a quick 3 wood session. Let's say that the start was catastrophic. Missed whole balls, topped balls, heeled balls. At the end I was able to hit a few decently. 

 

 

is this a good progression or am I "faking" it somehow?

[RandallT]

2 hours ago, Killa said:

is this a good progression or am I "faking" it somehow?

As you know, I'm no instructor, so I have no idea what your priority is. But I'll share an experience that perhaps you're going through. At one point, I thought I was shallowing and was looking forward to some kudos feedback from my instructor, but he basically said "oh boy, let's rewind and work on your backswing again." Lol. I had drifted off track by thinking of shallowing too much. Trying too hard and like you said, I was faking it.

Specifically, I was shallowing my A4 position so much and my initial hand path was very vertical because I wanted to kind of sweep it through with low hands. But once your hands start moving down, the club tips up and gets steep- the opposite of what I thought I was doing. Duh.

You can verify this yourself by going to the top and stopping. Drop your hands straight down and feel the club steepen. But if you move the hands toward the ball from the top (horizontally), you'll feel the club shallow.  It's this initial move that seems to beat me as I naturally want to rip my hands down. 

By A6 (club parallel), my club was on the wrong side of my hands, as I think yours is:

Honestly, I think you had it better in June for the club position at A6:

Have you ever tried left hand only swing? There's a discussion of one-armed swings at 15:30 in this video here (it's from the steepness thread link above):

The whole video is technical and the gist is that there are passive forces going on, and coming at the club from a shallower position is a good thing. When you swing left arm only, you'll really feel these forces. In fact, you'll find that it's a good thing to be steep at the top. One handed, you probably can't have the club as laid off at the top as I think you do now. You'll want to go back steep, and then shallow the club to make contact. It's pretty fun exercise- eye-opening. They do a good job explaining it all.

So I'm just throwing it out there, you may be trying too hard, like I did.  The frustrating part of it all, is that you have to concentrate, but you have to let go and not concentrate. Swing left hand only, and you can just do it- but put the right hand back on and it's tough- maddening. Still working on it all myself, and it's been over a year.

Oh, and another checkpoint is here:

The club at this point should be going back more through your bicep and less through your shoulder. So by this point, you are already too steep- robbing yourself of consistent strikes and some power (if you watch the video above, you'll see the physics reasons why this position is less consistent and less powerful).

 

[Killa]

Thanks for the detailed post @RandallT That's exactly what I meant by faking it I just couldn't see where I went off path myself. 

I "shallow" my path in the beginning but because I'm doing it wrong I actually end up too steep again, just much later in the downswing than before. 

And I don't really know how my club head gets so far in front when I feel like I'm swinging WAAAAY too much from the inside. 

I am getting a lesson this weekend or next week. I think I will take a few in the next months because I need to focus on more specific things. I actually wanted to forget all about shallowing out but then I reread the thread on Stubborn steepness and it planted another seed in my brain. 

I guess my fear is that I will ingrain something bad if I don't work on everything at the same time. Just got to forget that fear and take it one step at a time. 

[Killa]

So I think I stumbled to a video that can help me cure the steepness. Didn't look for it just came up on my feed. 

 check from about 50 seconds to 2 minutes. 

 

And while they say the problem people have is they come over the top I think my problem is going too straight down with my hands instead of following the plane. 

So I've practiced today (no video) with the feel that my hands follow the plane and I think it could improve my swing. I'll try to record it soon. 

[Killa]

I played in another tourney today. 9 holes after job. Shot a 52 (which is about 5 more than my best score on that course). 

I didn't play particularly bad but I kinda thought I sucked throughout the whole 9 holes. I also had a kid (11) in my flight that is a 6.6 hcp, so I got my ass handed to me :) he shot 2 over with one OOB shot :)) And the best part about it that I didn't feel the least bit bad for him beating me. I felt bad for a guy beating me that didn't hit a single shot while we were warming up on the range but still managed to shoot better than me. 

I was good off the tee, I was putting good, my chipping was lukewarm my approach shots were so-so. 

First hole I was longest of the tee with my 3 wood. Hit it about 210-220 yards. It was a short par 4 (about 300 yards). Topped my 52 wedge nGIR, chipped on the green and 2 putted for a  single. . (Good start for my handicap index but bad start for my head, really wanted that GIR from 80 out). 

2nd hole is the toughest hole 163 meters par 3 over a lake. Hit my 6 iron and the ball faded into the lake (distance was spot on). Drop and a pitch from about 100 meters out left me near the green. Chip and 2 putts ended in a triple.

3rd hole is a 500 meters par 5. Hit my 3 wood about 210 meters out. 2nd shot is a layup to the lake in front of the green, about a 150 meter shot. Hit my 8 iron to be sure but pushed it into the woods right of the lake. Chipped out with my wedge to the fairway and had about 150 to the center of the green. Hit my 7 iron to the back 1/3 of the green and off the green. Chipped and 2 putted for a double. 

4th hole is a 135 meter par 3. Hit my 8 iron nGIR. Failed to get up and down for par. Tap in for single. (-1 for my hcp index so far). 

5th hole is a 300 meter par 4. 3 wood of the tee about 190 meters, 9 iron nGIR, again failed to get up and down for par, single. 

6th is a 163 meter NARROW (woods on both sides) par 3. HIt my 6 iron into the woods and failed to see where it bounced. 3rd shot hit the 6 iron and it faded over the trees on the adjacent fairway. Distance was spot on, but the fade left me with a 30 yard uphill pitch. It hit the green but rolled just off it. Chipped on and 2 putted for a quad bogey...

7th is a 310 meter par 4. Hit my 3 wood about 220 meters, left with a 52 wedge in. Pulled it nGIR. A pathetic chip left me with another chip that ended about 1 meter from the hole. 1 putt for a single. 

8th was longest drive. Naturally I shanked the first shot 10 yards and out of bounds... 3rd was again my 3 wood and it went about 200 meters. Had about 120 meters to the center of the green and topped my 9 iron over the green (lost ball). Went back and hit near the green and my 25 foot putt from the fringe for a triple that would still give me Stableford points was about 2 feet wide. 

9th is a 330 meter par 4. Badly mishit my 3 wood that went 60 yards in the air and 120 yards distance. Hit my 5 iron about 180 left me with a 40 yard chip to the center. Wanted to flop it as the flag was really near the start of the green, but pulled it short. Another chip and a putt left me with a single. 

Looking back the round wasn't THAT bad. I had 5 singles and a double, 3 triples. Didn't actually pick up a ball once, except on the 8th where I was about 2 feet out and the score didn't mean anything anymore.  

[Killa]

 

I have been working mostly on keys 1-3 and a bit on shallowing the downswing. I feel that I'm pretty good on keys 2 and 3, maybe I still move the head too much. For the downswing I don't think I'm too steep but rather too shallow on the backswing. From normal speed video my swing looks flippy but when I stop it at impact it seems like I'm pretty much in a good position or am I fooling myself?

I have played a few rounds and I have been playing poorly but I have been forcing shots, using the driver where I shouldn't but then again I don't play enough and need all the on field practice with all my clubs I can get. 

[Killa]

 

 

Sorry for the bad quality but nowadays it's the only time I can hit the range and I'm just catching the last rays of sunlight. 

 

I feel like I made progress in the shallowing out the downswing and steepening the backswing. 

 

What I don't like is key 1. While I get back to the approximately same position at impact my head goes way down during the backswing and a bit back. 

I do like my shoulder turn and keys 2 and 3. 

It also seems to me that my takeaway starts out from the target line. Is that something to worry about?

[Killa]

I had a bit of a breakthrough this week when I was able to practice twice. 

I still can't do it at full speed but at 50% (feel) speed my swing is starting to resemble a good swing. 

I also followed advice to hit in a net. That takes a lot of pressure away regarding ball flight but still leaves the pressure of good contact. A shank is a shank regardless where you hit the ball. 

 

So my corrections were a narrower stance (had success doing that in the past), since that inhibits my back movement that leads to a massive head move, and breaking down the swing into two pieces. The backswing and the downswing with the follow through. That helps me focus on two separate parts and what it mostly does is that I retain my posture during my backswing where with my 100% speed I concentrate on shallowing out the downswing so much that I automatically shallow out the backswing with it. 

 

So these are the two videos I took and I am pretty happy with them. Key #1 is looking pretty close to where I want it to be and if I can transfer it to my full speed swing, then #1 is sliding way down on my list of priorities. Key #2 is also pretty good as is #3. Also the shallowing is much much better. I could take this swing to the course at 50% and probably only loose 10% distance. 

 

 

 

What do you think @RandallT and @boogielicious?

[Killa]

So, new year, new videos, new goals. 

The goals might not be achieved this year as I just can't find enough time to practice and/or play.

Here are two new videos from yesterday. Full speed:

 

My priority has now become Key #3. 

 

I think I got keys 1 and 2 "mastered". At least to an acceptable level (for now). I still see that I flip and I think that the reason I flip is the same reason I don't shallow out enough, even though I'm currently satisfied with my downswing plane (again, for now). 

 

I now need to go find many drills to work on key #3, as that seems the most obvious choice for my priority - NO MORE FLIPS.

 

[iacas]

I paused the FO at impact and don't really see much of a problem with #3. #2 isn't great, though - you're somewhat flat footed on the right foot and aren't likely achieving 85-95% of your weight forward.

I don't see the flip you asked about in the other topic.

[Killa]

On 5/18/2018 at 4:39 PM, iacas said:

I paused the FO at impact and don't really see much of a problem with #3. #2 isn't great, though - you're somewhat flat footed on the right foot and aren't likely achieving 85-95% of your weight forward.

I don't see the flip you asked about in the other topic.

I’ve attached a practice swing still picture from the same video as above. 

Wouldn’t that be a much better impact position?

[Shorty]

On 5/19/2018 at 12:39 AM, iacas said:

I paused the FO at impact and don't really see much of a problem with #3. #2 isn't great, though - you're somewhat flat footed on the right foot and aren't likely achieving 85-95% of your weight forward.

 

I am thinking his feet are much too close together. This has to lead to balance issues after impact. No?

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Shorty said:

I am thinking his feet are much too close together. This has to lead to balance issues after impact. No?

A bit too narrow, sure. Doesn't have to affect the balance - golfers can hit full shots with their feet almost together - but it can.