Why Replace My 20 year old forged cavity back irons?

[Midpack]

So I've been playing for two weeks after a 15+ year hiatus. Hitting all over the place but having a ball relearning. I used to shoot low 80's consistently. I never really worked the ball right or left other than big hooks or slices getting around trees.

I bought new TM 1-3-5 woods (on sale) as the much larger heads have to be easier to hit.

I planned to buy new irons too, but I thought I'd play a few rounds with my old (but like new looking) Wilson Staff RM Midsize forged cavity backs. Though I certainly hit thin or on the toe too many times, when I hit them square they still feel great and I was surprised to find I haven't lost much if any distance. I grew up with forged blades and never liked cast cavity backs in my day, when Ping ruled that market segment for irons. They never looked, felt or sounded "right" to me - though I assume you get used to it just as I went from actual wood "woods" to metals many years ago.

I was very disappointed to see manufacturers have delofted irons 1-2 clubs since my days. Looks like nothing more than falsely giving people iron distance bragging rights when loft is all that's really changed. Driving distance matters, but just knowing and hitting consistent distances with all the other clubs is what matters no?

So it looks to me all modern irons really have to offer is more forgiveness, not really more distance. Is that correct? If that's true, maybe I will just hang on to my old irons despite the inevitable sneering from my new golf buddies...

 

 

Edited May 8, 2017 by Midpack

[David L Yskes]

i'd say, stick with your old irons, for a year, and come next year, then see about buying a new set of irons...  

yes a lot of the new irons are de-lofted vs older stuff.. so you are not really hitting anything longer, it just seems that way..  and yes some are more forgiving with new technology..

i am playing with two older sets of Titleist irons... a cavity / mb combo set and a set of MB's that i use on the driving range, and i dont really think i am missing out on anything with newer irons... 

 

[WUTiger]

On 5/8/2017 at 11:12 AM, Midpack said:

So it looks to me all modern irons really have to offer is more forgiveness, not really more distance. Is that correct?

When blades ruled the world, I played MacGregor MT irons from 1974 - 1994. I broke 80 with them, but didn't threaten 80 much when I got into my 30s.

Here's the pattern I found: In seasons when I played six times a month, I scored in the mid-to- upper 80s. In seasons when I played just twice a month, I never broke 90 and had a lot of trouble with my irons.

When I got custom fitted for some Ping Eye2 clones in 1994, I cut about six strokes off my game the first year. The cavities gave me more forgiveness - and spun better with newer grooves - but I could still hit a basic draw or fade when needed.

2 hours ago, David L Yskes said:

i'd say, stick with your old irons, for a year, and come next year, then see about buying a new set of irons...  

DLY gives you solid advice. Relearn golf for a year with the Wilsons, and then do some side-by-side tests with newer irons. Do new irons help your scoring?

Part of your decision depends on how much time you have to work on your game, and your swing characteristics.

• Time: Former college golfers often move to GI irons rather than blades, simply because they don't have as much time to keep their swing in tune. Getting 18 holes of forgiveness improved their scores more than occasional super shots with blades. (See my red bold line above).
• Side-By-Side: See if any courses near you rent irons which you might like to use. Play 18 with the rented irons, and see if they fly better than the Wilsons. Also, some golf shops let you buy and test out use irons for 30 days. If they're not what you need, you can turn them in for $$ back, or sometimes an in-store credit.

[Buckeyebowman]

Sound advice above! That sounds like a nice set of older irons, so why not use them, at least for a while to see where you're at?

When I was WAY younger and lived at the range I had a set of player's blades whose heads were so small it was comical! But, I hit balls at least 6 days a week and learned how to hit them.

I'll say this, when you take the normal mass of an iron clubhead, put it in a smaller package, and can place that package squarely into the back of the ball, that ball is going to go like Hell!

And yes, the club companies have been monkeying with lofts, and also lengths, for quite a while now! My 7 iron had suffered shaft damage that was hidden by the grip, and snapped when hitting a shot earlier this year. When I took it to the golf shop to be reshafted I also took the 6 iron so the clubmaker could know how long to make the 7 iron.

The shop owner looked at me like I was crazy and asked if they were standard length. I asked him, "What's standard length any more?!"

[Joey G]

7 hours ago, David L Yskes said:

i'd say, stick with your old irons, for a year, and come next year, then see about buying a new set of irons...

yes a lot of the new irons are de-lofted vs older stuff.. so you are not really hitting anything longer, it just seems that way..  and yes some are more forgiving with new technology..

Very similar scenario as the original poster. Started playing again after a 10+ year lay off and have been playing with my grandfather's irons from 1978, they're original Ping Eyes. This was my plan, to play his clubs for 1 year and re-evaluate my game after that, even re-gripped them all to get 'em ready for this season.

While I've really been enjoying playing with his clubs and have broken 90 twice this year for the first times ever, after 6 months, I felt like I was hitting a wall with my iron game a little and decided to make a move sooner than I'd planned. However, I'm  not ready to drop $600+  on the set of irons that I want...so, I found a set of G5's with the right loft/lie and TFC-100i graphite shafts for less than $150 and couldn't resist.

I'm hoping that the more modern design and shaft will help me shave a few strokes...we'll see. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by Joey G

[Midpack]

I was close to buying new GI 5-PW irons w a 3 & 4 hybrid, but I've been comfortable with my old 2-PW forged CB's, so I am planning to stick with them for a while - maybe all season. I don't really work the ball other than an outright hook or slice to get around a tree or something. And I'm on the fence about forgiving clubs. My old irons let me know when I haven't hit it square, and I'm used to that, maybe keeps me on my toes. Will I get sloppy with modern GI irons? Not in a hurry for the moment.

And I have my hands full getting used to new woods/metals. From an old TM Burner Bubble 190cc (?) to a 460cc driver is taking me some time.

Edited May 15, 2017 by Midpack

[David in FL]

One other comment.  Don't neglect to replace your grips.  After sitting in the attic/basement/garage for 20 years, they're going to be hard and slick.  New grips will make a world of difference!

Welcome back to the insanity!   

[nickel_aTm]

This isn't rocket science. Nevemind the loft changes. You'll adjust as you get used to distances today's irons at today's lofts go. 

But why wouldn't you want irons that are far more forgiving?  I have some late-90's forged Titleist 735CM irons that I'll pull out every once in a while and I'm reminded the massive difference in forgiveness despite loving their look and feel. 

[Midpack]

10 hours ago, nickel_aTm said:

But why wouldn't you want irons that are far more forgiving?  I have some late-90's forged Titleist 735CM irons that I'll pull out every once in a while and I'm reminded the massive difference in forgiveness despite loving their look and feel. 

1) Cast cavity backs don't feel as solid as forged to me, might be in my head.

2) As I'm relearning my swing, I welcome knowing when I'm hitting it square and not. I assume more forgiving clubs make that harder to sense, might hinder my early progress. I'd rather have a solid swing vs clubs that mask my (lack of) consistency.

3) There must be a reason most pros don't use game improvement irons. It's not just about working the ball even for pros?

I will probably buy GI irons in time, but I'm hitting my old forged cavity backs pretty well, so I'm in no hurry.

It's minor, but the loft vs club number reductions the manufacturers have implemented put me off somewhat - are we really that vain, and naive? Just so you can say you hit your 7-iron as far as I hit my 5-iron (same lofts) - really? I think I'll have a "9" engraved on all my irons...

Edited May 16, 2017 by Midpack

[David L Yskes]

3 hours ago, Midpack said:

1) Cast cavity backs don't feel as solid as forged to me, might be in my head.

2) As I'm relearning my swing, I welcome knowing when I'm hitting it square and not. I assume more forgiving clubs make that harder to sense, might hinder my early progress. I'd rather have a solid swing vs clubs that mask my (lack of) consistency.

3) There must be a reason most pros don't use game improvement irons. It's not just about working the ball even for pros?

I will probably buy GI irons in time, but I'm hitting my old forged cavity backs pretty well, so I'm in no hurry.

It's minor, but the loft vs club number reductions the manufacturers have implemented put me off somewhat - are we really that vain, and naive? Just so you can say you hit your 7-iron as far as I hit my 5-iron (same lofts) - really? I think I'll have a "9" engraved on all my irons...

Midpack,     

technically a lot of Pro's do you a GI Iron,  because they are not using Blades... they are using a cavity back or a 3 iron hybrid...   but even with a cavity back long iron, the Pro's are still able to work the ball..   

and as for Golfer's being Vain.... i dont think it was Golfer's, it was the Golf Company's who wanted you to think you are going to hit the ball longer with " their " irons vs Company X irons....  hence why they started making a 7 iron a 6 or 5 iron...  

[Midpack]

1 hour ago, David L Yskes said:

Midpack,     

technically a lot of Pro's do you a GI Iron,  because they are not using Blades... they are using a cavity back or a 3 iron hybrid...   but even with a cavity back long iron, the Pro's are still able to work the ball..   

Yes, I shoudn't have made such a general statement. Some pros use GI irons, some GI long irons only and more blade or muscle back higher loft irons, and some mostly or all the latter. But regardless most pros clubs aren't off the shelf, they're not like what the rest of us can buy. And in general, they're looking for workability over forgiveness whereas most amateurs are not - so GI or SGI may be desirable.

Quote

Do any players play what would be considered game-improvement style irons? -- Brian McCullough

Game-improvement irons -- irons usually geared for mid-to high-handicappers -- exist on the PGA TOUR. While you'll rarely see a player put a full set in the bag, I've noticed a trend over the last year-plus of players putting game-improvement long irons in the bag.

Keegan Bradley (4-iron) and Graeme McDowell (3-iron) have used Cleveland's 588MT that has a hollow head design that allows weight to be distributed for a lower, deeper center of gravity. "It says 4 on the bottom of the club, but it's actually a 3-iron," Bradley said last season of his 588MT 4-iron. "The loft's a little stronger than my other 4-iron and I hit it as far if not farther than a 3-iron. It has a great flight and it's easy to hit."

 

Brian Harman started using a couple TaylorMade SpeedBlade long irons (4- and 5-iron) at The Honda Classic because they were easy to hit and had a high trajectory. Sean O'Hair also had a SpeedBlade 3-iron built recently that has 2-iron loft.

Bottom line, game-improvement irons aren't just for weekend hackers. Players on TOUR see the benefits of using them as long irons. They're longer, more forgiving and have a higher launch angle.

http://www.pgatour.com/equipmentreport/2014/03/04/mailbag--game-improvement-irons-on-tour.html

Edited May 16, 2017 by Midpack

[Buckeyebowman]

Every month in Golf Magazine they profile a player's bag. The May issue featured J.B. Holmes. In the set are 4 rusted up, ancient looking Cleveland wedges. It makes for kind of a jarring picture. Everything else in the bag is all bright and shiny, and then there are these rusty, decrepit looking things.

Doesn't matter how old they are, if they work they stay in the bag!

[David L Yskes]

11 hours ago, Midpack said:

Yes, I shoudn't have made such a general statement. Some pros use GI irons, some GI long irons only and more blade or muscle back higher loft irons, and some mostly or all the latter. But regardless most pros clubs aren't off the shelf, they're not like what the rest of us can buy. And in general, they're looking for workability over forgiveness whereas most amateurs are not - so GI or SGI may be desirable.

its all good...  yes the iron's the Pro's are using are going to be customized to their liking.. 

Buckeye, yea JB Holmes has some RTX 588's for wedges most likely a Raw version so they rust really easily, which will help reduce the amount of backspin he gets on the ball...  now he might just be cleaning the face of the wedges IDK and not the rest of the club..    

but of course with the top Pro's they have an arsenal of clubs at their finger tips, so if they wear out a Iron or wedge, they just goto the trailer and get a new one set up for them..