Difference in score between a 3-person and 4-person team in a Texas scramble?

[cutchemist42]

1st time I was in a 3-person scramble team because of a late dropout. I still liked our 71 we scored but it got me thinking whats the value of say, a 24 handicapper, adding a 4th possible better shot?

I did ask since we were the only 3 team if we could at least have alternating people try 2-putts but it got denied. I didnt think asking for that was absurd?

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, cutchemist42 said:

1st time I was in a 3-person scramble team because of a late dropout. I still liked our 71 we scored but it got me thinking whats the value of say, a 24 handicapper, adding a 4th possible better shot?

I did ask since we were the only 3 team if we could at least have alternating people try 2-putts but it got denied. I didnt think asking for that was absurd?

I've seen this done before, that each player in the group will alternate through hitting the 4th shot.

Hole 1
Player A: Hits a 2nd drive
Player B: Hits a 2nd approach shot
Player C: hits a 2nd 1st putt
Player A: Hits a 2nd 2nd putt
ect...

As for the influence on the group. Not much really. Maybe a made putt here or there, or maybe a rare GIR. It could be not strokes, or maybe a couple.

[dennyjones]

A 3 person team would have a much better score if they hit four shots.   This would be a huge advantage over a 4 person team.

If you had the chance to add a fourth, even a 24 handicap could possibly contribute on an approach shot or a putt.  It beats only having 3 shots.

[iacas]

A 24 handicap isn't going to add much to any scramble team. They can't even be counted on to give you a good read very often.

They'll not hurt your team (though they could hurt morale with poor shots and having to carry them all day), but they won't help much either.

[No Mulligans]

In a Texas Scramble don't you have to use each players tee shot at least four times?

If you have 3 better than average players, say 10s, I would think adding a 24 HI player could make the team worse.

[jsgolfer]

21 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I've seen this done before, that each player in the group will alternate through hitting the 4th shot.

Hole 1
Player A: Hits a 2nd drive
Player B: Hits a 2nd approach shot
Player C: hits a 2nd 1st putt
Player A: Hits a 2nd 2nd putt
ect...

As for the influence on the group. Not much really. Maybe a made putt here or there, or maybe a rare GIR. It could be not strokes, or maybe a couple.

I run two scrambles every year and the way we do the 3-person team is that each player alternates hitting the extra shots by hole.  So each player hits the extra shot on 6 holes.  That way you don't forget who's turn it is and you don't end up with the same person hitting every drive or most second shots or most putts.  

As to the OP, I can't believe that wouldn't let you alternate shots for the missing person.  What was the reason they gave for that?

Edited August 1, 2017 by jsgolfer

[cutchemist42]

1 hour ago, jsgolfer said:

I run two scrambles every year and the way we do the 3-person team is that each player alternates hitting the extra shots by hole.  So each player hits the extra shot on 6 holes.  That way you don't forget who's turn it is and you don't end up with the same person hitting every drive or most second shots or most putts.  

As to the OP, I can't believe that wouldn't let you alternate shots for the missing person.  What was the reason they gave for that?

They really didnt give a good reason for it, I couldnt believe they were so stubborn. They thought it would be abused by the good guy in our group. It was dumb logic.

We only needed to use 2 of each persons' tee shots.

Edited August 1, 2017 by cutchemist42

[Midpack]

Some allowance should be made IMO. Here is what sounds most fair to me for a threesome in a four person scramble:

Threesomes are permitted to rotate a fourth shot from each ball location.In other words, one person will be hitting twice from each position.However, the person hitting two shots cannot do so consecutively. (For example, it’s Player A’s turn to hit two shots. The other team members must play their ball in between Player A’s two shots.)

a. The rotation should be set at the beginning ofthe round, and remain constant throughout.

b. An example of this would be:

1. Hole 1 shot 1 : ABCA

2. Hole 1 shot 2 : BCAB

3. Hole 1 shot 3 : CABC

4. Hole 1 shot 4 : ABCA

5. Hole 2 shot 1 : BCAB

What our league does, and I don't agree:

Threesomes get an extra drive and an extra putt on each hole, but no extra shots from fairways (no extra fairway woods, approach shots or chips). No restrictions on who, so an A player can take all the extra shots (that's the part I don't agree with). For a twosome, both players get two cracks at every shot. If it's an A and a B player, they should do well. If it's a C and a D player, at least it will help.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Midpack

[jsgolfer]

9 hours ago, Midpack said:

Some allowance should be made IMO. Here is what sounds most fair to me for a threesome in a four person scramble:

Threesomes are permitted to rotate a fourth shot from each ball location.In other words, one person will be hitting twice from each position.However, the person hitting two shots cannot do so consecutively. (For example, it’s Player A’s turn to hit two shots. The other team members must play their ball in between Player A’s two shots.)

a. The rotation should be set at the beginning ofthe round, and remain constant throughout.

b. An example of this would be:

1. Hole 1 shot 1 : ABCA

2. Hole 1 shot 2 : BCAB

3. Hole 1 shot 3 : CABC

4. Hole 1 shot 4 : ABCA

5. Hole 2 shot 1 : BCAB

What our league does, and I don't agree:

Threesomes get an extra drive and an extra putt on each hole, but no extra shots from fairways (no extra fairway woods, approach shots or chips). No restrictions on who, so an A player can take all the extra shots (that's the part I don't agree with). For a twosome, both players get two cracks at every shot. If it's an A and a B player, they should do well. If it's a C and a D player, at least it will help.

For your league that is an odd way to do it.  

Not sure why in your first example you wouldn't want to have someone hit twice on consecutive shots.  In your 5 hole example above, you are forgetting that there are Par 5's and Par 3's and what happens with birdies, eagles and bogeys?   That changes the rotation, otherwise it will be confusing, especially when people are drinking, IMO.  That's why I did the everyone hits the two extra shots on only 6 holes, makes it less confusing and that is the way most of the courses I've played at also do the alternating shots.  

So Player A hits two shots on 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16.  B is 2, 5, 8, 11, 14 and 17.  And C on 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.  If you happen to make birdies, doesn't matter, make an eagle doesn't matter, make a bogey or worse, doesn't matter. Simple.  

[Midpack]

11 minutes ago, jsgolfer said:

For your league that is an odd way to do it.  

Not sure why in your first example you wouldn't want to have someone hit twice on consecutive shots.  In your 5 hole example above, you are forgetting that there are Par 5's and Par 3's and what happens with birdies, eagles and bogeys?   That changes the rotation, otherwise it will be confusing, especially when people are drinking, IMO.  That's why I did the everyone hits the two extra shots on only 6 holes, makes it less confusing and that is the way most of the courses I've played at also do the alternating shots.  

So Player A hits two shots on 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16.  B is 2, 5, 8, 11, 14 and 17.  And C on 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, and 18.  If you happen to make birdies, doesn't matter, make an eagle doesn't matter, make a bogey or worse, doesn't matter. Simple.  

In my example, players hit first shot A, B, C, A, second shot B, C, A, B, third shot C, A, B, C...that doesn't "reset" with a next hole, it continued throughout the round. Par 5's and par 3's don't change anything and neither do birdies, eagles, pars or whatever. Simple.

Consecutive shots is just to systematically avoid the temptation of players hitting both shots first or last. YMMV

Edited August 2, 2017 by Midpack

[jsgolfer]

1 minute ago, Midpack said:

In my example, players hit A, B, C, A, B, C, A, B, C...throughout the round. Par 5's and par 3's don't change anything and neither do birdies, eagles, pars or whatever. Consecutive shots is just to systematically avoid the temptation of hitting both shots first or last. YMMV

that's different from your example above and still too confusing.  What difference does it make if you hit two shots consecutively or not?

Plus if you start out with 5 par 4's and birdie every hole, the same person hits two drives on every hole, the same person hits the second and the third person hits two putts?

[Midpack]

18 hours ago, jsgolfer said:

that's different from your example above and still too confusing.

How is it different? It's player ABCA, BCAB, CABC and repeat throughout the round regardless of what hole you're on. What par is on each hole and birdies, eagles and bogeys have nothing to do with anything, you may be reading something in that isn't there. I've found that method in scramble instructions online, but there are other schemes. Whatever you like is fine, there is no right answer.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Midpack