Question on Embedded Ball

[CaseyD]

Is that only in play on fairways?  Like if the course is extremely soggy and you hit the ball into the second/ third cut off the fairway are you just SOL or do the rules apply in the rough as well?

[iacas]

1 minute ago, CaseyD said:

Is that only in play on fairways?  Like if the course is extremely soggy and you hit the ball into the second/ third cut off the fairway are you just SOL or do the rules apply in the rough as well?

This isn't a "rule" unless it's a Local Rule instituted by the Committee.

And if so, they decide "where" it is done. Most of the time, it's only in your own fairway.

[CaseyD]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Most of the time, it's only in your own fairway.

So if I plug it in the rough it’s just hack time. Damn it. Ok. Thanks. 

[Piz]

Play the ball as it lies unless the ground condition is not in keeping with the best traditions of the game.  Yeah it stinks to land one in the slop but you hit it there and that's the way it goes.  The only exception, in equity, is the situation that is not supposed to exist.  That is a judgement call.  When you hit into ground that ought to be under repair, but isn't, consult your fellow competitors.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

So if I plug it in the rough it’s just hack time. Damn it. Ok. Thanks. 

There are a few things at play here.

1. If your ball is embedded, currently that's a Rule that can be expanded through the green, but which is otherwise just in closely mown areas. In 2019 that reverses: it becomes in the "general area" but only closely mown IF the Local Rule is in place.

2. Lift, Clean, and Place doesn't require the ball to be embedded, and is generally only done in your own fairway, but which is sometimes done through the green. Depends on what the Committee decides.

2 minutes ago, Piz said:

Play the ball as it lies unless the ground condition is not in keeping with the best traditions of the game.  Yeah it stinks to land one in the slop but you hit it there and that's the way it goes.  The only exception, in equity, is the situation that is not supposed to exist.  That is a judgement call.  When you hit into ground that ought to be under repair, but isn't, consult your fellow competitors.

Fellow competitors don't get to make that call.

[CaseyD]

56 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

1. If your ball is embedded, currently that's a Rule that can be expanded through the green, but which is otherwise just in closely mown areas. In 2019 that reverses: it becomes in the "general area" but only closely mown IF the Local Rule is in 

So here's what happened. Nothing serious it was just a fun tourney but it got me thinking.  Course was waaaaayyyyyyyyy over watered. We were on a par 5, going for it in 2. Hit my second shot and it hit the outside face of a greenside bunker. Buried. Maybe the top 5th of the ball above ground level. I saw it and was like damn. It was buriieeddddd. 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, CaseyD said:

So here's what happened. Nothing serious it was just a fun tourney but it got me thinking.  Course was waaaaayyyyyyyyy over watered. We were on a par 5, going for it in 2. Hit my second shot and it hit the outside face of a greenside bunker. Buried. Maybe the top 5th of the ball above ground level. I saw it and was like damn. It was buriieeddddd. 

That's a different question altogether. That's a question about an embedded ball.

The current rules are that you're allowed relief only in a closely mown area unless the Local Rule extending it to through the green is in effect.

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-25,25-2

[CaseyD]

Cool. I saved that link. Thanks for the info. 👍

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Cool. I saved that link. Thanks for the info. 👍

It'll work for about another 50 days.

[Bill Catron]

Remember that often used term "Fairway" is almost completely unused in the Rules of Golf except to clarify the meaning of "Closely Mowed Areas" which term also includes any area of the course, including paths through the rough, cut to fairway height or less; the term "Through the Green" encompasses both fairway (i.e. closely mowed areas) and rough. Current Rules do not allow you relief from a plugged or embedded ball outside of any "Closely Mowed Area" unless a local rule had expanded the embedded ball relief to plays "Through the Green"

[Rulesman]

The rule will change in 2019 to allow relief for an embedded ball in the General Area but the Committee may adopt a Local Rule only allowing relief for a ball embedded in an area cut to fairway height or less.

[Asheville]

Rulesman, we still have this:

R16.3a Exceptions – When Relief Not Allowed for Ball Embedded in General Area: Relief under Rule 16.3b is not allowed:

When the ball is embedded in sand in a part of the general area that is not cut to fairway height or less,

What's that all about? The Yanks blame the Brits. 😏

And, part 2, if I may.

R16.3b requires that the relief area be the spot right behind where the ball was embedded. Fair enough until we deal with a ball embedded in the earth or grass-covered face of the bunker. (Which we now know for 2019 is not part of the bunker.) The USGA as of 18 Nov 18 hasn't an answer does your source?

Perhaps we're to drop twice on the face of the bunker and then inch our way, possibly sideways, until we find a spot on which the ball will remain at rest. On the other hand, back-on-the-line relief makes good sense, too.

[Rulesman]

8 hours ago, Asheville said:

Rulesman, we still have this:

1)

R16.3a Exceptions – When Relief Not Allowed for Ball Embedded in General Area: Relief under Rule 16.3b is not allowed:

When the ball is embedded in sand in a part of the general area that is not cut to fairway height or less,

What's that all about? The Yanks blame the Brits. 😏

And, part 2, if I may.

2)

R16.3b requires that the relief area be the spot right behind where the ball was embedded. Fair enough until we deal with a ball embedded in the earth or grass-covered face of the bunker. (Which we now know for 2019 is not part of the bunker.) The USGA as of 18 Nov 18 hasn't an answer does your source?

Perhaps we're to drop twice on the face of the bunker and then inch our way, possibly sideways, until we find a spot on which the ball will remain at rest. On the other hand, back-on-the-line relief makes good sense, too.

1) I suspect that it has two origins

a) The RBs not wanting to give relief from a sand filled divot hole

b) The fact that most links courses are built on sand and that many 'fairways' areas have bare areas of sand where the RBs want the ball to be played as it lies

You tell me from which side of the pond each could originate.

2) I don't believe anyone has an answer yet.

[Asheville]

My "problem" is the darn "excepts'. In this case relief is available in the general except in sand where it is not cut to fairway height or less, i.e. the rough.

As to 2), they've got 5 weeks to figure that one out. I'll bet they won't sanction a back-on-the-line relief area.

By the way, the exam is still exhausting. Someone suggested that it was last year's questions with next year's answers.

[Rulesman]

I'm not sure that I will bother. I was planning on retiring from refereeing in the next couple of years anyway