Ball Enters Penalty Area From Far Side

[deekay]

Hi everybody,

Two quick questions:

A stream runs parallel to the fairway, and I hit a ball that crosses the stream on the diagonal, hits a tree on the far side, and bounces back into the hazard.

Where the ball first crossed the hazard line is quite close to me, and where it last crossed (after the ricochet) is on the far side, further from me but closer to the green.

According to 2019 rules, where do I drop?

 

Would this be the same as when a ball crosses water, hits something, and bounces back into the water from the far side? E.G. When playing an approach shot or par-3 over water.

Edited February 4, 2019 by deekay

[iacas]

34 minutes ago, deekay said:

A stream runs parallel to the fairway, and I hit a ball that crosses the stream on the diagonal, hits a tree on the far side, and bounces back into the hazard.

Where the ball first crossed the hazard line is quite close to me, and where it last crossed (after the ricochet) is on the far side, further from me but closer to the green.

According to 2019 rules, where do I drop?

The drop areas are almost the same as in 2018, except they did away with the "opposite margin of the hazard" option. So, you drop in one of three places (assuming you don't wish to play it as it lies), if the penalty area is red (lateral penalty areas should be):

• Under stroke and distance, so within about a club length radius behind the reference point (which is just behind where you last hit from).
• Within the same sort of radius back on a line from where you last hit.
• Within two club lengths of relief from the margin of the hazard where it last crossed the margin. Not the original point, but the side on the opposite side of the creek.

39 minutes ago, deekay said:

Would this be the same as when a ball crosses water, hits something, and bounces back into the water from the far side? E.G. When playing an approach shot or par-3 over water.

If the par three is over water, the penalty area is possibly yellow, which eliminates the last option listed above. Otherwise, if it's red, the same three options are available, except you may not be able to take two clublengths without being nearer to the hole, eliminating it by practicality instead of by marking the area yellow.

[Club Rat]

56 minutes ago, deekay said:

where it last crossed

It is always where it last crosses a penalty area.

[RemyM]

There is a local rule option that allows dropping on the opposite side of a red penalty area, but it is to be used when the penalty area runs along OB where the ball can cross from the OB area and you would not have a drop from that side.

[deekay]

Thanks for the replies.

So I guess if the ball in the graphic above had crossed the water, struck the trees, and bounced back in, the point X would be on the far side of the lake, with relief areas areas 2 and 3 also on the far side.

Is it not common for the areas on the far side of lateral hazards to be pretty unplayable (stream banks/bushy/wooded) and so the only practical course of action would be to play a provisional, in anticipation of stroke-and-distance, which I thought the new rules were trying to avoid as much as possible, for pace-of-play reasons?

Or is that where the local rule mentioned by @RemyM could apply?

Where would such a rule be indicated?

[RemyM]

6 hours ago, deekay said:

Thanks for the replies.

So I guess if the ball in the graphic above had crossed the water, struck the trees, and bounced back in, the point X would be on the far side of the lake, with relief areas areas 2 and 3 also on the far side.

Is it not common for the areas on the far side of lateral hazards to be pretty unplayable (stream banks/bushy/wooded) and so the only practical course of action would be to play a provisional, in anticipation of stroke-and-distance, which I thought the new rules were trying to avoid as much as possible, for pace-of-play reasons?

Or is that where the local rule mentioned by @RemyM could apply?

Where would such a rule be indicated?

The local rule has to be enacted by the committee.  So if that is a situation that can occur at your club then the rules committee should put it in place at the holes effected. It could just be one red penalty area on the course, and no others, as is the case at my course.

[Asheville]

Here's an example:

Local Rule 3  - On hole #16, as an additional relief option for a ball in the penalty area marked by red stakes with white tops, relief may be taken on the opposite side of the penalty area at an equal distance from the hole. The player may drop a ball within two club-lengths, but not nearer the hole, of the opposite edge of the penalty area and add one penalty stroke.

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(This Local Rule is helpful because a ball entering the penalty area from the hillside on the left might leave the player with no good lateral relief area option on that side.)

[Club Rat]

I believe another Local Rule is sometimes use with "Drop Areas" on certain holes? With Penalty Areas?

Or did that get changed?

[iacas]

Regarding dropping on the opposite margin by Local Rule, most courses will probably opt instead to include the brush and stuff that's outside of the creek/stream in the penalty area. If there's a creek and some "stuff" between two holes, then the penalty area may include not just the creek, but the rest of the "stuff" and the other margin might be on the other hole, eliminating the ability for the ball to cross the creek from the "stuff" side.

[Rulesman]

Further to the above. The guide to officials running a competition suggests that adjacent trees, shrubs, scrub, long grass etc should be included within the margins of water hazards (now penalty areas). This because it could in effect penalise the player twice for getting of of the area onto safe ground. 1 penalty and one difficult or impossible shot

[deekay]

Ahhhh OK. So if you only see one line of red stakes you could reasonably assume that the stream bank/ bush/trees on the "outside" of that line are part of the penalty area.

Then in my scenario above, the ball bouncing off a tree was still within the penalty area, and so the ball only crossed the hazard line once (when it left the fairway.)

Point "X" would thus be on the fairway side of the hazard. The extended-line-from-the-pin relief would probably not work (it would normally extend into the penalty area), but the two-club-lengths relief would probably be fine.

Have I got it right now?

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by deekay

[Rulesman]

Yes.