Fourputt

This has to be one of the sillier discussions I've seen on the rules, either new rules or old ones. It's ridiculously simple to do, shouldn't be any reason I can think of for disputing it logically. It can't possibly be stretched into a debate over advantage or fairness or complexity. Of all of the changes for this season, this will be the one I will be least likely to have any trouble remembering or executing.

I always used to call it "pinching" the ball. I realize that isn't what happens, but it's more of a mental key to help keep my hands ahead of the clubhead, and to strike the ball before the bottom of the swing path. The "feel" is that I'm trying to pinch the ball between the club and the ground, even though it never actually happens.

It helps if you have long arms and short legs like I do (I'm 6'1" but only wear pants with a 30" inseam). I only have to lower the ball about 6 inches from standing straight up to get to proper drop height.

I couldn't answer the poll, because "Sometimes" wasn't an option. I do it most of the time, but it depends on the turf and on what club I'm using. The tee boxes here at the 9 hole course I play on most weekdays has "lush" teeing grounds, and the grass is thick enough that the ball sits up as if it's on one of those brush tees anyway. It "feels" funny to try and tee it up when I don't really gain anything from the process. I also have never been able to figure out how to hit my 7 wood from a tee, and that's my 180ish club, so it's fairly common to play it on longish par 3 holes. I used to be all in with the "always give yourself a perfect lie when you can" crowd. I still do when the tee boxes are mowed fairly closely, but I tee very low as Erik said, no more than 1/8" above the grass, and usually the bottom of the ball is still below the tips of the grass blades.

I think that I'll get used to it okay, but it's still going to feel odd for a while, just as it felt odd when they went from over the back of the shoulder to having the arm straight out. I think that the relative oddness will stick with us old farts longer, just because we have been doing it the other way for so long.

How do you know? What is it that gives you the certainty that the bogey was caused by the lie? You don't post a handicap, so I can't what level of player you are, but in my experience, anyone can make a bogey at any time without any assistance from a bad lie. I'm far more upset with the Fates when I hit a perfect drive in the middle of the fairway, have a great lie and a great angle to the hole, then block the ball 20 yards right and make a bogey or a double with nothing to blame it on but my own ineptness.

I expect that this will be how it is mostly done at the start of the season, but I wonder how quickly it changes if they start to perceive an advantage with the flagstick in the hole. Savvy pros have always used the rules to their advantage as much as they allowed for, and I don't see this as being any different. If certain situations make it advantageous, we'll start seeing it more often, even with Thomas. Not sure how that affects anything. I've pulled balls out with the flagstick in and never caused any damage. Certainly not as likely to do harm as sticking a putter in the hole to pop the ball out.

Yeah... that one jumped out at me too. Those mistakes have always seemed so obvious to me, yet for some people On a different note, I watched the play at Kapalua for a few minutes on Thursday, and say my first example of a pro tapping in without removing the flagstick. I don't even recall who it was that did it (might have been DeChambeau, I saw him on a couple of shots), but I have to say that despite knowing the new rule, it still looked odd. I like DeChambeau's comments about it. He has apparently been running his own tests, and he agrees with Erik that leaving the stick in the hole is advantageous. I'll certainly be leaving it in on most of those 3-5 foot knee-knockers where I'd rather have the option of being a bit more aggressive.

Off topic still but I couldn't resist:

Doink!! No contest. If you can't regularly get the 100 foot putt closer than the 150 foot pitch, then you need more time on the practice green. Too many variables in that 150 foot pitch, including lie and how badly you may have short-sided yourself. While I don't fear a 50 yard pitch, I'm MUCH more comfortable putting than I am chipping when given a choice.

I'll post again since my last one was 5 years ago. My feelings haven't changed - always shake hands unless I'm just playing with my brother. Don't even think about taking off my hat - don't see any disrespect in that. A sincere handshake and a statement about how much I enjoyed the round, congratulating him on a good round if appropriate, should be quite sufficient to show my respect. I agree with Erik that it's a relatively recent thing, mostly inspired by watching TV golf. I do remove my hat indoors, as I was taught by my grandmother. I don't wear sunglasses when I play golf, so that isn't a factor.

Like you, I'd owe what little I've been able to absorb from Jack Nicklaus and "Golf My Way". I use a similar open stance for putting, and I use the spot aiming method that I first read about in his book. I started playing in about 1974 when Jack was in his prime, so after devouring his book, it was natural to pick up some of his mannerisms, but to actually say that my game in any way resembled his would be pure fantasy.

Those "pigtails" were caused by the square grooves on your short irons and wedges. The sharp corners would shred the covers on urethane balls. Even my relatively slow swing would shave the cover of a Pro V-1. When those groves were banned, the shredding stopped for me. I don't think I ever played a balata ball with a square groove wedge, so I don't know how that would come out, but I don't think it would have been a good mix.

They want to retain a bit of randomness in the lie (as opposed to placing the ball), while doing more to minimize the bounce and roll after the drop. It's too easy now to set yourself up so that the ball takes a strong bounce, then again and then you get to place it. It should be more difficult now (but not impossible) to intentionally "work" that process in your favor. This is the second time in my golfing experience that they have changed the dropping process. I still like the way it was originally when I started playing, dropping the ball over your shoulder. That made it virtually impossible to make a "controlled" drop, but it did leave the possibility of getting a stronger "kick" as the ball rolled off your shoulder blade.

I like match play, always have, and I don't find it any harder to congratulate my opponent for a good shot or a well played hole than I do in stroke play. Yeah, I think they were dicks. I played quite a bit of match play. My home course Men's Club runs individual and partner match brackets every year, both for the whole club, as well as a senior bracket, and I used to play in at least a couple of the brackets each year (I now live nearly 150 miles from the course, so I only play the scheduled stroke tournaments any more). I never, ever experienced anyone trying to play mind games with me, not in club matches. I can't say that we didn't have some fun with each other when I was matched up against a good friend, but even then we knew that it was all in good humor. When playing a stranger or someone I didn't know well, we still enjoyed and respected each other's company, and played the game with good etiquette. If that wasn't your experience, then that's not typical from what I know in the matches I've played. I've never participated trash talk in golf. I prefer to let my game talk for me. (It used to be a much better talker than it is now, today )

Until I lose it, usually. Otherwise I'll play one until it gets a bit of road rash or other physical damage. Modern balls just don't seem to lose any "pop" just from normal use, at least the normal use that I put them to. Back in the balata days, it was pretty rare for a ball to make it more than 18 holes. They got scuffed, cut, bruised, and just beaten out of round from mostly normal play. I had rounds where I replaced a ball after 6 holes because of just being visibly out of shape, or a slight mishit would raise a welt on it. Hit it thin with an iron and it will be grinning at you from ear to ear. I've been using that ball lately. Seems to be right for my 72 year old swing. Pretty much indestructible unless it hits stone or concrete.

Not sure why it's any of your business, but it ain't that easy. If I could get myself to do so I would, but I've fought my weight my whole life, and losing any significant amount of weight is the most difficult thing I've ever tried to do. I quit smoking cold turkey more than 40 years ago, and that was a piece of cake compared to losing weight. Those who have never had to do so simply can't comprehend how hard it is, especially as you get older. Your metabolism naturally slows, so you use up less stored fat under the best conditions.

This is how I do it, by holding the flag cloth and lowering it to the ground. I've done this since I first started playing golf. A couple of years ago, I actually saw a guy break the shaft on his wedge by just letting the flagstick drop all the way from vertical and the top of the stick hit his wedge lying on the green. Likely a rare instance, but it helped give me validation for my method. From 3 feet, probably can't hurt anything, but I see far too many casual golfers just stand it up vertical and just give it a shove in the direction they want it to fall. Don't know if that hurts either, but it makes a much harder impact than just simply lowering it close to the ground. In the incident I mentioned above, there was a stiff breeze and the flagstick didn't fall straight where he intended. The graphite shaft on his wedge was hit just above the hosel with a point in the flagstick about 3 inches below the top, where the greatest amount of kinetic energy was achieved in the drop. (just as a point of record, it was a steel flagstick, not the more common fiberglass type)

I chose a little simpler... marginal. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I thought I'd reply and then go back and read. The one real change that I feel will be most in use is the new allowance for "penalty areas". In my opinion what this does is cater to the increasingly common practice of instituting an unauthorized local rule to call any place they want on the course a "lateral hazard", regardless of whether it meets the definition. In 2019, they won't be outside of the rules any more, because on many courses, anyplace where players tend to lose balls regularly will be red lined as penalty drops rather than stroke and distance. I'm not totally against such a practice, but I expect to see it overused. My biggest issue with it is that this change is intended to improve pace of play, but I don't think it will be all that significant. In my experience, the average player is still going to look for his ball for as long as he feels like doing so. If he finds it, he's still going to try to play it, no matter how ugly the lie. Some guys seem to be overly attached to a ball, and will search for it long after I'd have dropped and played on. Losing balls is part of playing golf, and this rule won't change that. It's intended to speed up play in such a case, but I don't think it's going to have nearly the effect that the rules guys expect.

I am with Vinsk on this, for 2 reasons. One: If you always play the ball "down" by the rules, even in casual rounds, you won't get any surprises when playing a competition. Two: It would make me sick to shoot a personal best, only to have it invalidated by not having played a proper round of golf. For me, every round is a new chance for a milestone, although at age 72, those markers are getting harder to find. Having to play from a divot hole is such a rare occurrence that it does little or nothing to really affect one's score. I've hit some really good shots from nasty lies, including from some quite significant divot holes, and it always feels especially good when I can successfully meet the challenge of adversity. To me, that's one of golf's real joys.

Never had an argument bad enough to carry over onto the course. We generally talk it out pretty quickly after a spat and neither of us typically holds a grudge. She told me when she accepted my proposal of marriage that she was a bitch, so I'd better be okay with that.

When I was in the Army the ditty was slightly different: "This is my rifle, this is my gun. One is for killing, the other's for fun." It's hole with a liner. Neither the hole nor the liner is a "cup". And the flagstick is not a "pin". I only worry about the distinction when discussing applicable rules, mostly to ensure clarity. When I'm playing with my buddies, "pin" and "cup" are terms we use most often by far. However, I use "bunker" pretty much all the time - it's just become habit for me. "Sand trap" just doesn't sound right to my ear - doesn't bother me when someone says it, I just prefer not to.

I'm just thankful that nobody among the various guys with whom I play feels it necessary to have music. I really dislike it on the course. It's against the rules and it just doesn't belong on a golf course. There's something wrong it you can't be away from your music for a few hours to play a round of golf. The odds are also very good that we won't both have the same taste in music. Regardless, I don't even want to hear the music that I like while I'm playing.

My bag right as of this moment: Titleist driver and gap wedge TaylorMade 5 wood, 7 wood, 6I-PW. Mizuno 3 wood Bridgestone hybrid (probably take that out as I never use it, but it's still part of my 14 right now) Cleveland CG 15 SW Golfsmith Enterprise putter I think that means I'm certainly not brand loyal, and not really a brand snob either.