For you + index players

[Jaywun]

I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I often wonder what separates you guys from the Nationwide tour guys or PGA. I don't personally know any + index players. The best of my friends are above 0 to 1.5 and they say they are light years away from pro's. I see +2 and +3 players posting on different forums and I wonder how far they are away from playing professionally. Is it just opportunity or are the tour players just that much better? That leads me to this question. If my 1 and 2 index friends shoot 68 and 69 on my local Muni course like I shoot 80. What would a top 50 PGA or Nationwide guy shoot? It scares me to think! You scratchers please chime in.

[bkoguy07]

I think there was a calculation on here saying the worst (score wise ) player on the tour probably (roughly computed) I believe was +6 or so.. maybe it was +3.8? I can't remember anyways, these guys would destroy anyone. Nationwide I'm not so sure about, I was talking about PGA... they are all super talented though.

[joepro23]

I know I'm not a + handicap, but I am in the ballpark. Remember...handicap is not scoring average. I am a 1.5 index and my scoring average was 77 at my club (CR 73.1, Slope 135, Par 71). A +2 will probably have a scoring average of 72 at the same course. I can't imagine a PGA pro averaging as high as 72 at my course. My guess is that if an average pro teed it up against me he would beat me by at least 10 shots unless I am really on my game. Take a look at the U.S. Open Challenge as an example. I believe guys like Tony Romo and Michael Jordan, who both play around scratch or at worst a 2, are shooting around 80. Even though the course is tough, most pros were able to beat those guys by 10 shots.

I remember seeing the same thing bkoguy07 is talking about. They calculated Tiger's 2007 handicap and it was around +8. The worst PGA pros were +4 I think

[Jaywun]

I recently saw the best round in my life. I paired with 2 guys at my local Muni. 1 guy said he was a 4 and his friend just said +. I've been golfing for 20 yrs. and just recently found out there was such a thing as plus. I really wanted to pick his brain but never got the chance. He was very polite, just not very talkative. He blasted thru that course like I've never seen. He shot 6 under! The only time I thought he might bogey, he sunk a 10 footer for par. So solid! He hit 1 3wood and irons to the other par 5's, hit the green in 2 every par 5. His buddy shot 1 over and I shot 81. He actually said "nice shot" to me a couple times. God give me a break! At the end I asked him if he was a pro and he just said No-nice meeting you. That left me wondering, on that day, on that course, in that group, what would Kutcher,Stricker,or Furyk have shot?.

[Shorty]

I recently saw the best round in my life. I paired with 2 guys at my local Muni. 1 guy said he was a 4 and his friend just said +. I've been golfing for 20 yrs. and just recently found out there was such a thing as plus. I really wanted to pick his brain but never got the chance. He was very polite, just not very talkative. He blasted thru that course like I've never seen. He shot 6 under! The only time I thought he might bogey, he sunk a 10 footer for par. So solid! He hit 1 3wood and irons to the other par 5's, hit the green in 2 every par 5. His buddy shot 1 over and I shot 81. He actually said "nice shot" to me a couple times. God give me a break! At the end I asked him if he was a pro and he just said No-nice meeting you. That left me wondering, on that day, on that course, in that group, what would Kutcher,Stricker,or Furyk have shot?.

That has been my experience with really good players, too. They just go about their business.

The first time I ever caddied when I was 13, almost 30 years ago, the guy I caddied for had 8 under. I was amazed, and I still remember a lot of the shots he played in that round. And...I'll bet money that this guy has very little interest in stamping his wedges and having the latest driver, ridiculous "custom" features on a putter or having a signature on a golf forum that says "Swing: S&T;". In fact, I'd bet he doesn't even know what a golf forum is. Really good players are interested in one thing and one thing only. Playing as well as they can.

[Blades4me]

I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I often wonder what separates you guys from the Nationwide tour guys or PGA. I don't personally know any + index players. The best of my friends are above 0 to 1.5 and they say they are light years away from pro's. I see +2 and +3 players posting on different forums and I wonder how far they are away from playing professionally. Is it just opportunity or are the tour players just that much better? That leads me to this question. If my 1 and 2 index friends shoot 68 and 69 on my local Muni course like I shoot 80. What would a top 50 PGA or Nationwide guy shoot? It scares me to think! You scratchers please chime in.

I think last year there was a thread something like this one. One of the responses was, "play your home course for one month from the tips and if you average 68 then you have a shot the Nation Wide tour".

[Jaywun]

I'm having one of those "what the h___ was I thinking!" moments. Back when I first broke under 10 hdcp.( I'm now over 11)I remember saying once that on my home course, I could play a skins match with a pro and win at least 1 hole. Thank God I only said it to my kids. I'd have a better chance of beating Cain Velasquez in a cage fight!

[enis750]

I'm having one of those "what the h___ was I thinking!" moments. Back when I first broke under 10 hdcp.( I'm now over 11)I remember saying once that on my home course, I could play a skins match with a pro and win at least 1 hole. Thank God I only said it to my kids. I'd have a better chance of beating Cain Velasquez in a cage fight!

i beat my assistant pro this year....hehhe! but he really played like sh*t that day shooting a 75 and he is a legit +3 index - i shot a one over 72

he doesnt have to keep a valid index as he is a "pro" but he keeps one anyways i was really nervous when i got invited to play with thim and a few other + index's, but like Shorty mentioned and the OP, these guys are out there for one reason to score and score low no temper tantrums, no loud f bombs or anything like that and VERY VERY solid putting i think the biggest thing other than talent is the 6" between their ears...they know how to control their head and stay calm Example: on hole 11 my asst pro hooked his drive, then over shot the green and 3 putted for a bogey (after eagling the prev hole) our hole 12 is a very tight short par 4, with sand protecting the front of an elevated green i NEVER pull driver out, a solid 3w puts me to a nice 125 yd knock down PW that will sit he pulled driver and blasted it within 50yds of the hole to have the balls to pull driver after snap hooking the previous hole, on a tight par 4.....impressed the crap outta me he then birdied......

[Jaywun]

enis, I wish I had more opportunity to play with those guys. It just seems like there are so many guys around here under 5. They just dont wanna play with hackers. I kinda understand. I'm just a firm believer that the only way to get low mith my handicap is to play more with the low guys. I know joining a club is the way to go but with kids in college.........you know.

[billysandy]

There's a +1 hcap at my club who I have played with once. He used to be a +2. He had just bought a set of irons, so just went round 9 holes hitting them. No woods in his bag at all. He shot 3 under for the 9 holes. Including dropping a 40ft birdie on the par 4 17th, 466 yards. He hit 3 iron, 3 iron. They really are just focused, and mentally sound.

[enis750]

enis, I wish I had more opportunity to play with those guys. It just seems like there are so many guys around here under 5. They just dont wanna play with hackers. I kinda understand. I'm just a firm believer that the only way to get low mith my handicap is to play more with the low guys. I know joining a club is the way to go but with kids in college.........you know.

i wish i had more of an opportuniy to play w better golfers too....i only plaed twice w my asst pro and once in a tourney w another couple of + guys

there is 2 + guys at my club this year i wont be a member there next yr tho........looking to go somewhere w a proper men's night and a more challenging course that is a bit longer its not that they dont "like" to play w guys not their skill level i know they like to keep a consistent pace of play and get through a round not searching for lost balls they all started as 20, 10, 5 and 0 players at some point i dont mind playing w guys that score worse than me, but i like to learn from better guys too IMO you can learn things from a + that you cant leanr from a 15, but same can be said vise versa

[Harmonious]

Having played with a number of pros (some who were great players, others just so-so) and other plus handicaps, I've found that they don't have a problem with higher handicappers, so long as they don't slow up play. I would add that I will play with anyone, but don't bring a negative attitude to the course. The absolute worse kind of player is one who doesn't have much game, plays slow, sprays it all over the place, then complains all day long about their game. Life is too short to play with negative players.

[wrx_junki]

Drive down south and go stalk your fellow sandtrapper Ben.

[Ben]

I'm sorry if I sound ignorant, but I often wonder what separates you guys from the Nationwide tour guys or PGA.

Personally, I'd chalk it up to experience, time and backing. I don't play golf full-time, yet. I do have to hold down a job to pay for entry fees, travel, food and rent, amongst other things. Full-time players are playing tournament golf four days a week. If they do or don't make the cut they are still practicing on the other days. I do have a large amount of time I can dedicate to my game, but not quite that much. I could get a sponsor or backer, but I feel like that would put some extra level of pressure on my game that I'm just not looking for. Therefore, other than a few entry fees my dad helps me out with, everything else is on my dime. Lastly comes experience. Most of the dudes out there came from junior golf onto college golf mixed with an amateur career. I got none of that. I played on my high school team, but that was the extent of my amateur golf. I only got really serious about my game when I got my golf course job, seven years ago now. And started playing on the professional level about five years ago. I'm practically a baby to the competitive game, at 34 years old.

Drive down south and go stalk your fellow sandtrapper Ben.

whao whao whao, let's not get crazy here. Unless of course Jaywun happens to be an attractive girl? :P

[Bigtank]

The difference....

I posted this on another thread...several weeks ago, I played with a buddy of mine and current PGA tour member. We played a respectable Nationwide course 75.2 / 142, 7440 yds. I put togther a good round and shot a 68 (-3). My partner just out realxing, with several beers, shot a 62 (-9).

That is the difference between a touring pro, and a typical plus handicapper. They have the talent, coupled with the time and menas to put in hours of practice towards their goals.

[Bastid]

These stories remind me of the time here in Illinois.

the sectional qualifier for the Winged Foot Open in '06 was at a course here in Illinois that I played a lot in high school. Steve Stricker and Mike Small were paired together for the qualifier; I thought it would be awesome to see how they played. Now this course, St. Charles Country Club, is not a beast but it's certainly not an easy course. The best round I ever put up there was 2 under 70. I followed Stricker and Small for both rounds...want to know what they shot with only one practice round?

Stricker - 65 - 64 = 129 (15 under par)
Small - 69 - 66 = 135 (9 under par)

Small missed the Open by a shot because Jason Allred shot 63 in the afternoon round. They absolutely picked that course apart. Oh, and Stricker bogeyed the first two holes of the day. After that, it was goddamn lights out. I've never seen more putts drop; he made everything.

[luckyluke699]

http://www.pga.info/AboutThePGAPro/33811381.htm

"amateurs thinking about going for their tour cards or turning professional will probably need to be playing off, or equivalent to, a handicap of plus three or four as a minimum to have any realistic chance of cutting it and make a living at the highest level."

also suggests if you get to that +4 level, you start on a mini tour such as euro pro/Jamega here in the UK (think it's hooters in the US?).

[Bigtank]

Both Rory Mac and Ricky Fowler were +4's at their last amatuer status.