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CuppedTin

One Plane vs. Stack and Tilt

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What is the main difference in the One Plane vs. the Stack and Tilt? I have been watching the Shawn Clements videos on YouTube and the one plane seems like a very simple swing. I'm just curious why the Stack and Tilt swing originated? Is the stack and tilt swing supposed to be more consistent or repeatable?

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Originally Posted by CuppedTin

What is the main difference in the One Plane vs. the Stack and Tilt? I have been watching the Shawn Clements videos on YouTube and the one plane seems like a very simple swing. I'm just curious why the Stack and Tilt swing originated? Is the stack and tilt swing supposed to be more consistent or repeatable?


You're kind of all over the place with your questions. What does Shawn have to do with Jim Hardy or S&T;?

The S&T; swing "originated" for reasons already shared elsewhere on the forum. Basically, Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer categorized what separated the most expert players from the poorest players. The components they came up with form S&T; and are the components seen most often in classic and effective golf swings from the 50s on through to today.

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I would also add to this that the description of a "one plane swing" is a swing whereby the player turns their shoulders around a bent-over spine at 90 degrees to the spine and their arms swing around their upper torso onto the same plane as the shoulder turn.

That being the case S&T; is a specific type of one-plane swing.

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Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I would also add to this that the description of a "one plane swing" is a swing whereby the player turns their shoulders around a bent-over spine at 90 degrees to the spine and their arms swing around their upper torso onto the same plane as the shoulder turn.

That being the case S&T; is a specific type of one-plane swing.


Yes.

Hardy's "One Plane Swing" pattern has some variations from S&T.; Bit more rotary, less extension (arms, torso/thoracic spine, etc.), and a few other little things.

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This will give you a decent idea of the Hardy information.  S&T; and Hardy may seem similar but there are many difference.  Yes, both want the arms to work deep and shoulders turning steepish but, like iacas said, lack of extension, right elbow gets too far behind the shirt seam on the backswing and downswing, narrow radius, downswing is very rotary, "covering" the ball with your upper body.  Tend to produce low fades if you don't get enough weight forward.  Lots of good intentions but missing some important pieces imo.

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I actually like the weight forward on the S&T;, as I believe many tour players do this to an extent. I think the two major errors that golfers do is 1. They get too much weight transferred back and the either end up swaying or they don't properly get all that weight shifted back and 2. (IMO the most important) they don't turn there shoulders on the same plane on the downswing that they started with on the back swing... But I'm just a player, not a teacher. I think it should be called Stack and Tilt Components, not a Stack and Tilt Swing...
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Originally Posted by CuppedTin

I actually like the weight forward on the S&T;, as I believe many tour players do this to an extent. I think the two major errors that golfers do is 1. They get too much weight transferred back and the either end up swaying or they don't properly get all that weight shifted back and 2. (IMO the most important) they don't turn there shoulders on the same plane on the downswing that they started with on the back swing... But I'm just a player, not a teacher. I think it should be called Stack and Tilt Components, not a Stack and Tilt Swing...


Although the components can all be used separately it's marketed as a full swing ("The swing that's remaking golf"), hence "The Stack and Tilt Swing" rather than "The Stack and Tilt Components that can be combined if you like or if not you can use them separately"

Also the shoulders on a different plane is a two plane swing, not necessarily a 'wrong' swing.

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I just don't understand the two plane swing and if the stack and tilt is going to revolutionize golf as a swing and not a component then they better get some better tour players endorsing it.
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Originally Posted by CuppedTin

I just don't understand the two plane swing and if the stack and tilt is going to revolutionize golf as a swing and not a component then they better get some better tour players endorsing it.


Given how the "S&T; swing" came about, one could argue that virtually every PGA Tour player is already "endorsing" it by using the majority of the components.

Weight forward (has more to do with getting there at impact) - check

Shoulder down - check (to varying degrees... nobody has a perfectly horizontal shoulder plane at P4)

Hands in - check (to varying degrees)

Arms straight - check

Tuck butt - check (to varying degrees, but less than either of the two above)

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Hey guys, I actually ran into a S&T; instructor and spoke with him in length about the swing. He looked at my swing and said that I had the best leg transition he had ever seen on the backswing but I was not getting my lead shoulder down enough on the backswing and that I was not coming through properly. He told me a great way to start the downswing but I wanted to run it by you guys,he said to simply straighten my lead leg to start the downswing... How does this sound

PS- I carded a 75 not swinging correctly, so I am excited about the possibilities.

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Originally Posted by CuppedTin

Hey guys, I actually ran into a S&T; instructor and spoke with him in length about the swing. He looked at my swing and said that I had the best leg transition he had ever seen on the backswing but I was not getting my lead shoulder down enough on the backswing and that I was not coming through properly. He told me a great way to start the downswing but I wanted to run it by you guys,he said to simply straighten my lead leg to start the downswing... How does this sound

PS- I carded a 75 not swinging correctly, so I am excited about the possibilities.



hmmm, sounds familiar, great minds think alike :)

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If you litterally do that, then you will hit it right. Drawers of the ball tend to keep there left leg flexed which lets them get there weight forward more at impact. While faders tend to straighten the leg faster causing less weight forward. Given there are other factors, but it can be a factor between those two shots. I never really think about it, if i think about getting my left hip joint forward toward the target and rotate backwards and up, i transition good. I mean specifically, i concentrate on my left hip joint. not the hips on the whole.

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Originally Posted by saevel25

If you litterally do that, then you will hit it right. Drawers of the ball tend to keep there left leg flexed which lets them get there weight forward more at impact.


But with S&T; your weight is already forward, correct?

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Ask Erik that, i believe that in the backswing i would say at least 50% on the front leg, then it goes up from there in the downswing. But doing that in application is a different matter, in theory yes. But still, if you straighten your left leg quicker, even if you get majority of your weight left, you will be more likely to hit it right. They talk about pro's spinning out and they hit it right. I remember one announcer saying that for this one golfer to learn to hit a draw they softened his left leg through impact, this allows him to attack more from the inside more and hit a draw. Thats what that guy's swing instructor told them.

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Originally Posted by saevel25

Ask Erik that, i believe that in the backswing i would say at least 50% on the front leg, then it goes up from there in the downswing. But doing that in application is a different matter, in theory yes. But still, if you straighten your left leg quicker, even if you get majority of your weight left, you will be more likely to hit it right. They talk about pro's spinning out and they hit it right. I remember one announcer saying that for this one golfer to learn to hit a draw they softened his left leg through impact, this allows him to attack more from the inside more and hit a draw. Thats what that guy's swing instructor told them.



Ok, I'm left handed so it takes me a second to translate since you are obviously standing on the wrong side of the ball! :-)

Here is why I think people really need to seek online lessons or an instructor before trying to do S&T; on there own. The reason for the pushed shot to my left or your right when straightening the lead leg is because the golfer comes up out of the shot when the do that. You must stay down and turn your shoulders on the same path that they returned on. It is possible to straighten that leg without coming out of the shot/swing...

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Oh i agree, my leg is straight when i am finished with my swing, but its bent coming in the downswing and into impact. I don't snap my leg like tiger or straighten it as a mental thought

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Originally Posted by CuppedTin

He told me a great way to start the downswing but I wanted to run it by you guys,he said to simply straighten my lead leg to start the downswing... How does this sound


Please don't do that. The hips can't go forward if you straighten the lead leg prematurely (and P4 is prematurely).

Who did you talk to? I know literally every S&T; instructor, and none of them would say that.

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Ok guys, experts and fans... I still have a ways to go but I carded a 75 with no OB drives! Distance was not the same but regular divots... I still think I need to tighten the butt cheeks more on the down swing and I think I'm not quite returning my shoulders on the same plane which is resulting in not getting full extension on the downswing with my lead arm. If you need to bash me please feel free. [URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvCevjazCfU&feature;=youtube_gdata_player"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvCevjazCfU&feature;=youtube_gdata_player[/URL] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNMv0xVpzV0&feature;=youtube_gdata_player
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