The Cheers have Left Augusta

[iacas]

Please give this article a read and share your thoughts in the comments there (much preferred) or here (if you must).

[Madriver]

I think the powers that be at the Master Club have done exactly what they wanted. I think they cringe at a
(-12 ) winning score. I think they wanted a severe test of golf and they got it. I think the back nine charge may be harder to come by, but other than the two you describe, how many back nine charges were there? Isn’t it more of a round of attrition in most Masters? The back nine charge is what made those Masters memorable but I don’t think they are the norm. I think you are right about the comparison to a U.S Open set up, but I think that’s what “they” wanted. Remember why Gary McCord got kicked off the CBS commentating team for…to paraphrase…”the greens are faster than a Jamaican pickpocket”…well they still are but along with it they got length, narrow fairways, and a course that will always be questioned as to “playability”. I think the Club enjoys it, and I think they will continue to set it up as a just barely playable venue. As long as the Golf Club and Ball making companies continue to push the limits of technology, I think Augusta will to.

[allin]

I think the heart of this dilemma lies at the mistaken belief that the best course is the toughest and the highest winning score means the best championship. We should be pursuing courses which reward a variety of skills, penalizes real errors, can be played in more than one style. There also needs to be a balance between the need for courage and control. When all of these are present then the best golfers are identified. Unfortunately the tournament organizers of Major tournaments are men of my age and older who seem to have a goal of protecting heroes of past generations. Why not just acknowledge that equipment, training, and agronomy have advanced the sport? Don't get me wrong I don't want all of the Par 5s reachable in 2, or second shots on most par 4s wedges. The lengthening trend is going to far. It is starting to resemble a basketball game with only 7 footers and no one allowed to shoot more than 10 feet from the basket. In other words power and free throws VS monster drives and putting.

[ChicagoGolfer]

I think the heart of this dilemma lies at the mistaken belief that the best course is the toughest and the highest winning score means the best championship. We should be pursuing courses which reward a variety of skills, penalizes real errors, can be played in more than one style. There also needs to be a balance between the need for courage and control. When all of these are present then the best golfers are identified. Unfortunately the tournament organizers of Major tournaments are men of my age and older who seem to have a goal of protecting heroes of past generations. Why not just acknowledge that equipment, training, and agronomy have advanced the sport? Don't get me wrong I don't want all of the Par 5s reachable in 2, or second shots on most par 4s wedges. The lengthening trend is going to far. It is starting to resemble a basketball game with only 7 footers and no one allowed to shoot more than 10 feet from the basket. In other words power and free throws VS monster drives and putting.

You are exactly right. Take a look at the top ten and you will see a wide range of golfers. I think it is great when a course allows Mike Weir, Jim Furyk, Craig Stadler, Tim Clark compete with Vijay, Phil, and Tiger. That to me is a fair test of golf.

The Masters tends to reward players who take chances at the right places. It's a brutal course at times, so the players with experience and confidence know when to "push" it. I'm confident that we will see a good sunday and it will come down to the last few holes and how players are sinking putts. The scores will be higher this year than last, but the course looks awesome and as beautiful as ever. You will see many players on sunday take chances. That's the beauty of the course.

[iacas]

You are exactly right.

In your other thread, you said you agree with almost nothing I say. I agree with the poster you say is "exactly right."

The Masters tends to reward players who take chances at the right places. It's a brutal course at times, so the players with experience and confidence know when to "push" it.

How many eagles have we seen so far? Is the tally still two for 2007? What's been the average score?

Clearly the course isn't doing much "rewarding." Either players have gotten worse, lost tens of course management IQ points, or the course is playing a lot "stiffer" than in the past. In short, it's become a U.S. Open type venue. Gone are the days of players eagling both back-nine par fives. Gone is the excitement. Did you read my post, really, or just think to yourself "Erik wrote it, I MUST disagree?"

You will see many players on sunday take chances. That's the beauty of the course.

I have yet to see a player take a real chance. I've yet to see a player push the envelope. Tiger Woods laid up from 240 the other day on a par 5! Players were laying up from less than that, downhill, from the fairway.

Aside from a few players going at the 16th flag - albeit with 8-irons - I saw almost nothing yesterday or today that resembled "risk." And I sure as heck saw very little "reward." The lead fell back today, after all.

[iacas]

Oh, and again: it's very much preferred that you post on the article itself, not here. If you have a private comment, PM me.

[Madriver]

Steven Ames ...qoute..."you could see 3 or 4 over win this...and it's only the Masters, not the U.S Open".


....Augusta National ....."only the Masters"....thats why you are seeing the carnage. Also, the weather, the course has been soft for the last 5 or 6 Masters.

[pickapocket]

As a keen viewer of the Masters for the last 18 years I can't disagree more with the articles sentiments. I have never seen as gripping a first 3 days than this one. Nobody has run away with it in the style of Tiger 10 years ago, we are all set for the most dramatic final round of a major ever!!

Yes the course is brutal but the big numbers that have been run up, Applebys 7 and Ogilvys 9, are all the result of poor shots and poor course management. I have yet to see a good shot go unrewarded.

The original vision of MacKenzie has been changed certainly, for the better I believe. Lets face it, the game is different nowadays and golf courses have to adapt to the increasing skill levels of the players.

"The cheers have left augusta" This quote does not tell the whole story. The weather is positively freezing for that part of the world so its highly likely a lot of patrons have walked in or just have their hands in their pockets.

Rest assured that the player with the lowest score will win, and will deserve that green jacket. The challenge is there for all, the challenge is fair but firm.

Bring on 19:30 GMT!!I will be glued to this one.

[iacas]

As a keen viewer of the Masters for the last 18 years I can't disagree more with the articles sentiments. I have never seen as gripping a first 3 days than this one. Nobody has run away with it in the style of Tiger 10 years ago, we are all set for the most dramatic final round of a major ever!!

The article didn't talk about those things. It said that birdies have been replaced with bogeys, that people aren't cheering because there are almost no eagles or "great shots," and that the current setup is NOTHING like what Bob Jones envisioned.

You may LIKE the leaderboard, but that's not what the article is about.

Yes the course is brutal but the big numbers that have been run up, Applebys 7 and Ogilvys 9, are all the result of poor shots and poor course management. I have yet to see a good shot go unrewarded.

You've not been watching the same tournament as other people, I guess.

The original vision of MacKenzie has been changed certainly, for the better I believe. Lets face it, the game is different nowadays and golf courses have to adapt to the increasing skill levels of the players.

St. Andrews remains largely the same. They haven't added trees and rough there. The ideas are still the same.

"The cheers have left augusta" This quote does not tell the whole story. The weather is positively freezing for that part of the world so its highly likely a lot of patrons have walked in or just have their hands in their pockets.

Uhm, no. How about "there are less birdies and eagles than ever, and more pros are laying up on par fives than going for it." That tells the story.

If you get a ticket to the Masters, you don't "walk in."

[nogoodhacker]

I do not care for the bomb and gauge golf of today. Everyone talks about having a couple of ways to attack Augusta on each hole. I am fine with that as long as both places to attack are from the fairway.

I personally cannot stand to see a player get away with losing half his tee shots in the rough and still be able to shoot a sub 70 round on a regular basis. What is the point of having obstacles if they do not impede the players attack? Below is my post as JD to this article.

If you ask me, this years Masters was mission accomplished. A not so big hitter won this event for the 1st time in a long time. Zach, playing brilliant, confident golf, laid up everytime on the par 5's and beat everyone, including Tiger, shooting them at 11 under.

Is 7500 yards long by today's standards? Sure, but for the Pro's it is not extreme. Rewarding bad tee shots is extreme and also makes watching TV golf extremely boring.

It gets so bad some weekends, it is like watching these guys playing a par 3 course. No great skill required (keyword is great, as in PGA grade great) . The bombers just hit it as hard as they can, and they still have a 50% chance to reach the green from the woods or 1st cut at 235 yards out. Where is the fun in that?

If the par 5's are going to play like that; just replace the par 5's with some long par 3's and lets speed up the play. As far as I am concerned, the Masters wanted to bring the accuracy game back to Augusta without taking away the bombers chances.

Zach and Rose made a decent showing along with the bombers. We had at least 5 or 6 players that were in contention right up until they played the 16th, in some cases the 17th, hole. How much closer can it get? When was the last time we had a US Open with that many in contention with only three holes to play? This was a lot of fun to watch; Mission accomplished!

One other note; if the weather this week would have been more like a typical Spring in Georgia, the winning score would have been at least 4 to 6 shots better.

[allin]

I do not care for the bomb and gauge golf of today. Everyone talks about having a couple of ways to attack Augusta on each hole. I am fine with that as long as both places to attack are from the fairway.

You are right about the weather. I have seen the point made that the course played much like a British Open, hard and fast with minimal rough. Open greens are rarely this tough I believe. So British Open tee to green with US open greens might cover it. The reason no one went for the greens in two had to be because they couldn't control their distance with the wind and cold or count on stopping their shot on the green. The # of balls rolling back in to the water on Sunday by players trying to make something happen supports this. Risk of going for Par 5s it in two should be enough that you think hard about it and reward great enough that at least some will try it. The risk side was probably to high this week. In these conditions a little extra water on the greens and a little easier pin placements would have made for a better tournament. I have to admit so many having a chance on Sunday made for great drama, just glad I don't have to play with those conditions.

[iacas]

I personally cannot stand to see a player get away with losing half his tee shots in the rough and still be able to shoot a sub 70 round on a regular basis. What is the point of having obstacles if they do not impede the players attack? Below is my post as JD to this article.

You are aware of the fact that in the old days (i.e. eight years ago), many of the areas currently infested with trees and rough were instead cut to fairway height.

Think about #11. All the trees right on that hole, all that rough - it used to be fairway. But who would want to approach the green from there? The green slopes heavily from right to left and a bit front to back, all towards water, water, water. Clearly the best approach angle is from the left, away from the water, and into the slope of the green. Yet, if you hit a bad drive, but played an absolutely perfect second shot, you might just pull it off. Or, you were forced to lay up short and try to get up and down. It's subtle distinctions like that which have been lost, and THAT is what the article is about. The Masters has removed risk/reward and now favors plodding, U.S. Open-type play. Booooooooring. BTW, please read and comment on the actual article, at least duplicating your posts here in the forum.

[pickapocket]

The article didn't talk about those things. It said that birdies have been replaced with bogeys, that people aren't cheering because there are almost no eagles or "great shots," and that the current setup is NOTHING like what Bob Jones envisioned.

I could go down the line of justifying my individual points here but feel I would only be playing into your hands. You asked us for our views on a the article about the Masters, we gave you that. Both myself and at least one other have been blazed by you in response, why is that? If you ask for opinions then you gets them. Perhaps you should have left it at "if you agree then reply" and it would have saved you the time and effort in replying to our mails. I don't come to the forum for this, I want to engage in debate, since when has this been so wrong? By the way good luck in the Scratch division this year, I hope you shoot 90

[iacas]

I could go down the line of justifying my individual points here but feel I would only be playing into your hands. You asked us for our views on a the article about the Masters, we gave you that.

You'll note that I don't really respond to people who agree. I like it when people disagree. I dislike it when people disagree with silly or provably wrong reasons. I dislike it when people put words in my mouth.

I don't come to the forum for this, I want to engage in debate, since when has this been so wrong?

You want to engage in debate, yet when I attempt to do so, you say that it would be "playing into my hands" and refuse to comment further?

By the way good luck in the Scratch division this year, I hope you shoot 90

How very mature of you.

[NM Golf]

I have to agree with Erik. I find no joy in watching the best players in the world fighting for their lives around a golf course. Now Sunday was a lot better with the winners finally having a chance to play the course how it should be played. The Masters is not the U.S. Open. I don't believe it should be the ultimate test of golf. My god what is wrong with an underpar score? Sure the old Augusta probably needed to be toughened up a bit to combat the new way golf is played but CHRIST, enough already! Gone are the day IMHO where you will see someone get hot and win the Masters from 4 down on the back nine on Sunday. To me that is what I loved about the Masters. -10 should win the masters not +1.

[Madriver]

there have only been (3) Master with a winning score of even par or worse. The weather had EVERYTHING to do with the over par scores. The powers that be at Augusta National and many golfers would argue the Masters is the most coveted trophy in golf. They had to protect the course. Again, look at the previous 5-6 Masters, the course was being changed but the weather kept it soft. This was the first Masters with the current configuration and hard, dry, and cold conditions. I don't think it is a portend of what the Masters will be in the future.

[iacas]

there have only been (3) Master with a winning score of even par or worse. The weather had EVERYTHING to do with the over par scores. The powers that be at Augusta National and many golfers would argue the Masters is the most coveted trophy in golf. They had to protect the course. Again, look at the previous 5-6 Masters, the course was being changed but the weather kept it soft. This was the first Masters with the current configuration and hard, dry, and cold conditions. I don't think it is a portend of what the Masters will be in the future.

Do they not have sprinklers at Augusta National, Madriver?

Also, the weather conditions are beside the point - that the trees and "rough" are a bastardization of Bobby Jones' vision.

[Madriver]

Do they not have sprinklers at Augusta National, Madriver?

I don't think Bobby Jones vision of three wood/ wedge on every par four was part of the Master Plan either. Like almost every "Old Skewl" cousre around the world, changes are being made to defend their honor. While I am no purist of the course at Augusta National or of Mr. Jones, what would you suggest that the membership do to defend the honor of the course that is Augusta National?