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Beachcomber

Handle Location Checkpoints

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Hi guys, can any of the instructors or TST users with knowledge of TGM/MORAD/S&T;/5SK help me identify the proper handle locations throughout the swing?  Checkpoints to use for simply the handle - and keeping the club on plane?

I ask as I just received a new high speed camera from Santa (120fps at 720p or 240fps at WVGA)... And was thinking that in order to take advantage of this new high speed camera that I have in my possession... I'd like to map out some basic checkpoints to monitor in video.

One of the videos that I think does a good job of introducing these plane lines and points to monitor is by Mario below:

But I was hoping there was a swing sequence model - which already had lines drawn on it that I could quickly reference, and then compare those to my high speed video stills at the same alignment positions.  Thanks for any replies and help in advance, I really appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Hi guys, can any of the instructors or TST users with knowledge of TGM/MORAD/S&T;/5SK help me identify the proper handle locations throughout the swing?  Checkpoints to use for simply the handle - and keeping the club on plane?

No. There are some basics (club pointing at baseline for a good chunk of the swing, but really the only time it matters is during the downswing, for obvious reasons), but you're not going to be able to do this unless you want to swing exactly like someone or a small group of people.

Steve Stricker and Sergio Garcia both get it done despite vastly different handle locations.

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Setting up the camera is important as well.  If the camera is off, going to effect where that laser points.  Like Erik said, mostly important on the downswing.  At A5, make sure the butt of the club is pointing at or just outside the ball.  I go by more of the anatomy in relation to the shaft checkpoints, anatomy checkpoints and shaft plane from 1-2 to make sure the club doesn't get too far in right away.  I see more commonalities with those measurements than good golfers tracing baseline.

Easiest way to learn this stuff is to just spend time on Dana's channel and watch what he does lol  But understand that these are just alignments to give us a better idea of what's going on, sequence of movements, cause and effect, what the priority piece is, not measurements to live and die by.  Nobody hits all the checkpoints.

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handle locations are useless if your body is not functioning correctly.......and everyone is different.

...and forget the plane.....are any of the greats below "on plane" to the ball on their DS?.....NO.

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Originally Posted by notsohard

...and forget the plane.....are any of the greats below "on plane" to the ball on their DS?.....NO.

Are any of those camera views terribly great for looking at the "plane"? NO.

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Originally Posted by iacas

Are any of those camera views terribly great for looking at the "plane"? NO.


lol.....here you go, DTL

follow the black line ;)

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back to the OP.

everyone is different, build, hand size, flexibility, leg strength,core strength, weight, equipment, application etc etc.

not being simplistic...what you really want to do is know where you and the club+"handle" is at IMPACT .

forget the backswing, that does not hit the ball, but if you understand impact and beyond, the backswing will come.

look at Furyk, his impact is pure... 2012 ...3rd in scoring averages(to mciiroy and woods)...4th in driving accuracy

and NOT once is he "on plane".....

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Originally Posted by notsohard

and NOT once is he "on plane".....

Of course he is or he'd miss the golf ball.

Anyway, you're ignoring the existence of parallax and trying to draw lines on a 2D image that represent 3D space.

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Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Hi guys, can any of the instructors or TST users with knowledge of TGM/MORAD/S&T;/5SK help me identify the proper handle locations throughout the swing?  Checkpoints to use for simply the handle - and keeping the club on plane?

I ask as I just received a new high speed camera from Santa (120fps at 720p or 240fps at WVGA)... And was thinking that in order to take advantage of this new high speed camera that I have in my possession... I'd like to map out some basic checkpoints to monitor in video.

One of the videos that I think does a good job of introducing these plane lines and points to monitor is by Mario below:

But I was hoping there was a swing sequence model - which already had lines drawn on it that I could quickly reference, and then compare those to my high speed video stills at the same alignment positions.  Thanks for any replies and help in advance, I really appreciate it.

Here are a couple threads discussing somethings you may want to look for, although you may have already seen these.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54540/a-centered-pivot

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54697/downswing-sequencing

http://thesandtrap.com/t/53724/the-ps-positions-or-as-alignments-in-the-golf-swing

Also, you can look at different alignments and different planes such as elbow plane, shaft plane, shoulder plane, etc etc, but as stated above nothing to live or die by.  Always other variables.

Now that you have a camera, I would highly recommend looking into evolvr so that you can receive personalized help.

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Originally Posted by sk golf

Now that you have a camera, I would highly recommend looking into evolvr so that you can receive personalized help.

Thanks!  I've been using Evolvr since last year.  It's definitely helped... But I also like to have intelligent interaction with the community here at TST.  So I post video updates here to show what I'm working on/doing.

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Originally Posted by sk golf

Now that you have a camera, I would highly recommend looking into evolvr so that you can receive personalized help.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Thanks!  I've been using Evolvr since last year.  It's definitely helped... But I also like to have intelligent interaction with the community here at TST.  So I post video updates here to show what I'm working on/doing.

LOL!  Gotta love the anonimity of the internet (especially for those of us who have screen names like "Beachcomber" and "Golfingdad")  I'd be surprised if you haven't already received a lesson or two from "sk golf" on Evolvr. :)

(He's done my last two!)

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Originally Posted by iacas

Anyway, you're ignoring the existence of parallax and trying to draw lines on a 2D image that represent 3D space.

No im not, because parrallax doesnt exist here, parrallax must have a viewpoint, a subject...which we have here....and a distant background, which is of no use here because we are not trying to focus on the golfer with regards to depth of view, the vid-camera used here does not have a rangefinder viewing system where one has to focus on an object and uses infinity....eg: viewing subject left or right of the actual lens and sensor.

what you see here in these images is what you see in the viewfinder, its a direct line with the eye over the sensor....the bullshiit theory of parrallax with vid-cams does not exist, when it suits individuals to use it should be shot down.....parrallax is only used to bring a subject into focus.

...and please dont even try using the 2D, 3D rubbish..... wont be long before teachers incorporate such tripe into the golf swing......modern golf is all about money...therefore everyone has an agenda, therefore they will spin whatever they want to fit in their little vortex of goodies to the unassuming public......you only have to listen to the club manufacturers for such stupidity....cheers.

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" Parallax is a displacement or difference in the apparent pos ition of an object viewed along two different lines of sight, and is measured by the angle or semi-angle of inclination between those two lines."

Parallax exists. You're removing the depth from the equation and trying to say where the shaft is pointing. You cannot accurately know this.

Call it what you want, "point of view error" or whatever, but the fact remains that anything that's not on a direct line from the camera straight out of the center of the lens will appear to be both pointed at and located at different spots than they are in reality.

Photos and video are great, but they have limitations, and one of those limitations is that they compress space three dimensions into two.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/54050/importance-of-camera-position-in-golf-swing-video-analysis/

As for your last paragraph, uhhhhh, okay… Whatever. Back on topic now, eh?

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