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CR McDivot

PGA and Preferred Lies (fluffing)

52 posts in this topic

Several PGA events this year had a day or more of Preferred Lies.

Really, these players are the best of the best... is it too much to ask them to play under current course conditions (unless lightning causes safety concerns)?

It rains on the course I play, the wind blows, snow happens. I have never quit a round, or asked for "Preferred lies" because of weather. Golf is an outdoor game, weather is a player one must contend with. No clean and place except on the putting surface or in the case of an embedded ball (fairway only). Casual water means nothing unless it is flowing enough to move the ball.

Pros should play the ball as it lies! If conditions become hazardous to the safety of the player, play should be suspended till the safety concern is ended. Play should resume at that time regardless of rain, wind, sun, eclipse, solar flare, planetary alignment or course condition.

Play the ball as it lies pampered pros!

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Not sure who would benefit by asking the pros to play with clumps of mud on the ball.

Is that what TV audiences want to see?

Do you think it makes them less manly or something?

What would be the point of not having preferred lies? Or lift, clean and place?

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Originally Posted by Shorty

Not sure who would benefit by asking the pros to play with clumps of mud on the ball.

Is that what TV audiences want to see?

Do you think it makes them less manly or something?

What would be the point of not having preferred lies? Or lift, clean and place?

They'd actually be playing golf.  The preferred lies local rule is severely abused (or overused, if you prefer) by the PGA Tour.  It was never intended to be applied just because the ball occasionally picks up a bit of mud.  That is part of the game.

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The point would be that weather is part of the game. Course conditions change as the weather changes.

Why should professionals expect free relief from course changes caused by environmental conditions?

Or perhaps the tour should play in air conditioned domed super stadiums on padded astro turf?

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why not have them putt from just off the green as well if a sprinkler head is in their line? or eliminate ground under repair and have them play from there too. the pga tour rarely grants lift clean and place. the golf course needs to be fair and when weather takes its toll on the ground they play off of relief should be granted. you also suggested they should have to play from a puddle because the course doesnt drain properly? seriously?
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Originally Posted by Chris223

... the golf course needs to be fair and when weather takes its toll on the ground they play off of relief should be granted. you also suggested they should have to play from a puddle because the course doesnt drain properly? seriously?

Your first 2 objections are specious.

Weather is fair, it rains on the righteous as well as the wicked.

Who was it that hit the ball into the puddle? Should that person be responsible for where the ball rests?

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when that puddle is in the middle of the fairway?
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Originally Posted by Chris223

when that puddle is in the middle of the fairway?

That's called casual water.  There is already a rule for that, Rule 25-1.  And if the ball embeds, then it's 25-2 or 25-1, depending on whether casual water exists around the embedded ball.  No need for an overly generous local rule when the situation is already covered.  These guys are the self-proclaimed best, so let's see them prove it.  Every time conditions are less than perfect, all they do is bitch.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

That's called casual water.  There is already a rule for that, Rule 25-1.  And if the ball embeds, then it's 25-2 or 25-1, depending on whether casual water exists around the embedded ball.  No need for an overly generous local rule when the situation is already covered.  These guys are the self-proclaimed best, so let's see them prove it.  Every time conditions are less than perfect, all they do is bitch.


It might speed up the play also:

Breaking; Play suspended at the Deutsche due to players playing so slow they have stopped. Remarkable.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt .  These guys are the self-proclaimed best, so let's see them prove it.

I don't think they are "self-proclaimed" as the best.  They are the best.

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Originally Posted by vct33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt .  These guys are the self-proclaimed best, so let's see them prove it.

I don't think they are "self-proclaimed" as the best.  They are the best.

PGA Tour TV ads all say "These guys are good."  Sounds like self promotion to me.

I'm not arguing that they don't have the talent.  They are good, but I want to see it displayed under all conditions, not just when everything is perfect.  Part of the game is dealing with adversity, so let them just play golf and quit fluffing lies.

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Originally Posted by Fourputt

I'm not arguing that they don't have the talent.  They are good, but I want to see it displayed under all conditions, not just when everything is perfect.  Part of the game is dealing with adversity, so let them just play golf and quit fluffing lies.

The committee is allowed to put that rule into place, and they do so because they're told to do so by the PGA Tour, which is a player-run organization, and the players feel that it's "fairest" to do that.

You might not like it (obviously), but it's all perfectly within the rules, even if you feel it's stretching them a bit.

Additionally, 99.9% of the golf world can put their ball on a tee for every shot they want and get six throws per round and still not beat the PGA Tour players. They are the best, and prove it time and time and time and time and time again. You sound silly with the "self-proclaimed" stuff.

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I think the point he's trying to make is why do they get exceptions that the ordinary golfer doesn't.  Other than when winter rules are in effect I've never seen improved lies allowed locally.  As stated earlier, casual water and embedded balls are already covered by rules.  If I get an occasional mud ball I have to play it.....my course isn't going to change it for a wet day.  Just this spring my dad tried to pull a stunt of claiming "lift, clean and place" on holes that were deemed cartpath only due to excess rain.  We later checked with the pro for our own knowledge and the pro just laughed and said no.   I remember a few years ago watching an LPGA event on TV where they were allowed relief from thin lies because the course was burned out in a few areas.....Lord forbid they have to hit off dirt like the rest of us.

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Originally Posted by CR McDivot

Several PGA events this year had a day or more of Preferred Lies.

Really, these players are the best of the best... is it too much to ask them to play under current course conditions (unless lightning causes safety concerns)?

It rains on the course I play, the wind blows, snow happens. I have never quit a round, or asked for "Preferred lies" because of weather. Golf is an outdoor game, weather is a player one must contend with. No clean and place except on the putting surface or in the case of an embedded ball (fairway only). Casual water means nothing unless it is flowing enough to move the ball.

Pros should play the ball as it lies! If conditions become hazardous to the safety of the player, play should be suspended till the safety concern is ended. Play should resume at that time regardless of rain, wind, sun, eclipse, solar flare, planetary alignment or course condition.

Play the ball as it lies pampered pros!

Agree with everything you said except the highlighted sentence - don't think we should be required to soak ourselves & ruin our clothing with muddy water having to hit a full shot out of a puddle ...

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Originally Posted by flintcreek6412

I think the point he's trying to make is why do they get exceptions that the ordinary golfer doesn't.  Other than when winter rules are in effect I've never seen improved lies allowed locally.  As stated earlier, casual water and embedded balls are already covered by rules.  If I get an occasional mud ball I have to play it.....my course isn't going to change it for a wet day.  Just this spring my dad tried to pull a stunt of claiming "lift, clean and place" on holes that were deemed cartpath only due to excess rain.  We later checked with the pro for our own knowledge and the pro just laughed and said no.   I remember a few years ago watching an LPGA event on TV where they were allowed relief from thin lies because the course was burned out in a few areas.....Lord forbid they have to hit off dirt like the rest of us.

Yep, that all I was saying.  Let them play golf without the pampering.

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The pros are playing a different golf than you and I are, totally different. that said the clean and place is necessary at times, I'm fine with it because everyone has the same advantage. and its special occasion only when mother nature comes into play.

what I don't care for is during the practice round at say the open championship, they'll practice their shots from the drop zones near the bleachers on certain holes and pin locations. During the live rounds they will intentionally hit their ball into the bleachers, no loss of stroke and get to play from....you guessed it the drop zone. This no stroke penalty is a relatively new rule that got slid thru without a lot of public attention, meanwhile anchoring and grooves become an issue we all deal with.

I wish we had bleachers and TV towers at my club!

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The pros are playing a different golf than you and I are, totally different. that said the clean and place is necessary at times, I'm fine with it because everyone has the same advantage. and its special occasion only when mother nature comes into play.

what I don't care for is during the practice round at say the open championship, they'll practice their shots from the drop zones near the bleachers on certain holes and pin locations. During the live rounds they will intentionally hit their ball into the bleachers, no loss of stroke and get to play from....you guessed it the drop zone. This no stroke penalty is a relatively new rule that got slid thru without a lot of public attention, meanwhile anchoring and grooves become an issue we all deal with.

I wish we had bleachers and TV towers at my club!

How are temporary immovable obstructions new?  They've been around for at least 50 years.  I'm not sure just when the local rule governing them was put into words in the rule book, but that's been there for along time too.  Nothing got "slid through".

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How are temporary immovable obstructions new?  They've been around for at least 50 years.  I'm not sure just when the local rule governing them was put into words in the rule book, but that's been there for along time too.  Nothing got "slid through".

The drop zones are new, the drop zone(s) remain in place for the entire tourney. No matter which bleacher. Prior to that the players had to take drop, no closer to the hole etc, just like you an I, often not in the most desirable area.

About 2years +,one commentator spoke at length how much this changes playing a hole than before. My reference to "slid through" was not the immovable object but where the ball ultimately could be played-drop zones, my mistake for the confusion.

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