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About placing the ball at the fringe....

James_Black

By James_Black,
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James_Black Great Member

James_Black

Was just watching the golf and Ernie Els was allowed to move his ball so that his swing wasn't impeded by the second cut of grass.

Can anybody tell me the exact ruling of this? I always thought you had to play the ball....

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...

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iacas Hall of Fame Member

iacas

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Can anybody tell me the exact ruling of this? I always thought you had to play the ball....

They are playing lift, clean, and cheat aren't they? It's wet.

Erik J. Barzeski — ⛳ I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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Ignorant Great Member

Ignorant

Was just watching the golf and Ernie Els was allowed to move his ball so that his swing wasn't impeded by the second cut of grass.

Did not see that but wild guess: groove edge?

Another guess: winter rule?
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James_Black Great Member

James_Black

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They are playing lift, clean, and cheat aren't they? It's wet.

Oh ok, the commenter was saying he could more it because of the fringe, didn't notice it was clean and place.

My Clubs
Driver - LV4 10* R flex
Wood - sam snead persimmon 2 wood (for windy days)
Hybrid burner tour launch 20* stiff flex.
Irons - Tour Mode 3i,4i stiffIrons - FP's 5-PW R-flexWedge - spin milled 54.14Wedge - spin milled 60.07Putter - Victoria Lowest round 2010: 79 (par 70)Latest rounds at...

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Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

They are playing lift, clean, and cheat aren't they? It's wet.

I thought they were playing lift cheat and place?

But yes, the fringe is considered fairway for this purpose, I think.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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Yukari Great Member

Yukari

I never understood that lift, clean and place local rules when the course is wet. Everyone is playing the same course so why should you have this exception? I know in US Open and other majors they don't. I remember last year when Duval was in contention at Bethpage and had to hit a muddy ball that went waaay left. Why would a smaller tournament allow such an exception is beyond me.

Don

:titleist: 910 D2, 8.5˚, Adila RIP 60 S-Flex
:titleist: 980F 15˚
:yonex: EZone Blades (3-PW) Dynamic Gold S-200
:vokey:   Vokey wedges, 52˚; 56˚; and 60˚
:scotty_cameron:  2014 Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2

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Zeph Incredible Member

Zeph

Probably because you shouldn't have to be punished by having to hit a ball full of mud when finding the fairway.

Ogio Grom | Callaway X Hot Pro | Callaway X-Utility 3i | Mizuno MX-700 23º | Titleist Vokey SM 52.08, 58.12 | Mizuno MX-700 15º | Titleist 910 D2 9,5º | Scotty Cameron Newport 2 | Titleist Pro V1x and Taylormade Penta | Leupold GX-1

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Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

I never understood that lift, clean and place local rules when the course is wet. Everyone is playing the same course so why should you have this exception? I know in US Open and other majors they don't. I remember last year when Duval was in contention at Bethpage and had to hit a muddy ball that went waaay left. Why would a smaller tournament allow such an exception is beyond me.

Here's something I can explain. There's no blanket ban on it - too many pros like it for the TOUR to adopt such a rule, so it's up to the individual tournaments. Suppose the L.A. Open decides they're never going to play what we'll politely call preferred lies. There might be players who sell tickets who might reconsider the tournament on account of this. I don't think anyone would skip a major due to lack of preferred lies, but I can see some pros (I have no idea who) selecting their regular schedule based on it.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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spitz20 Well Established Member

spitz20

Probably because you shouldn't have to be punished by having to hit a ball full of mud when finding the fairway.

exactly, who wants to be punished for hitting the fairway...

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909D2 9.5° Diamana S
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Alex B Well Established Member

Alex B

I never understood that lift, clean and place local rules when the course is wet. Everyone is playing the same course so why should you have this exception? I know in US Open and other majors they don't. I remember last year when Duval was in contention at Bethpage and had to hit a muddy ball that went waaay left. Why would a smaller tournament allow such an exception is beyond me.

Here's something I can explain. There's no blanket ban on it - too many pros like it for the TOUR to adopt such a rule, so it's up to the individual tournaments. Suppose the L.A. Open decides they're never going to play what we'll politely call preferred lies. There might be players who sell tickets who might reconsider the tournament on account of this. I don't think anyone would skip a major due to lack of preferred lies, but I can see some pros (I have no idea who) selecting their regular schedule based on it.

There are probably several other reasons:

-- TOUR events need to finish on time. If the US Open finishes on Tuesday, no one is going to get upset and slander the USGA; if some regular event finishes late, grumpy players make the tournament and the TOUR itself look bad. Lift, clean, and place facilitates play on days that might otherwise be washed out; it also speeds the pace of play, possibly preventing an early Monday finish. -- TOUR events want lower scores. Sure, a champion at -28 doesn't look good, but a champion at +4 looks worse. The average public likes watching players go low; lift, clean, and place gives ample opportunity for birdies in sloppy conditions (remember, Al Geiberger's 59 was shot under preferred lies) and ensures that scores don't drift too high (by erasing the mud-ball that hooks 50 yards and leads to double).

What's in my bag:

Driver: R7 CGB Max, regular shaft
4-wood and 7-wood: :: Launcher, regular shafts
4-iron to A-wedge: X-20, regular steel shafts56- and 60-degree wedge: forged, stiff steel shafts, vintage finish, MD groovesPutter: Circa '62, No. 7, steel shaft, 35"Ball: NXT Tour or ProV1(x)...

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aceofharts336 Member

aceofharts336

I know that lift, clean, and place rules will often be implemented in wet conditions to keep "loose impediments" such as grass, sand, and dirt off a ball in the fairway.

In my Grom stand bag:

V2 Rapture 9* with Mitsubishi Rayon Diamana Blue stiff shaft
Launcher 15* 3 wood with Proforce V2 stiff shaft
18.5* 3DX 3+ Hybrid with Adila NV Hybrid 75 stiff shaft MX 200 3-PW with True Temper XP S300 stiff shaftsVokey Spin Milled 52.08Vokey Spin Milled 58.12 CX2 34 in

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