Adjustable Drivers and Effective Loft ?

I bumped into an article on Adjustable Drivers and Effective Loft ( http://www.addicted2golf.net/?p=674 ) and it says :

" The effective loft of any club will change if you open or close the club face by:

1) Not returning it to square at impact, or

2) Adjusting the face angle of an adjustable face driver

For example, let’s say you bought a 10.5 degree driver and change the setting from square to 2 degree closed.  For every degree closed, the effective loft increases by 1 degree.  So now, you’re gaming a loft of 12.5 degrees.  Now those manhood robbing  moon shots become a little easier to understand…

Of course, the opposite is true if you play an open face angle as most better players do.  The effective loft of a 9.5 degree driver with a 1 degree open face is 8.5 degrees.  That may be OK for some players but a good number will lack the club head speed to generate enough spin to lift the ball and optimize distance at that launch angle."

I feel it is the opposite way, closing the face would reduce the loft and opening would raise the loft

Or am I wrong ?

Closing the face on an adjustable driver (or if you just manually close the face of your driver) increases the loft, opening the face does the opposite.

Hmm .... math is not my thing, but I don't understand, can you explain ...... bc when I open the face I would expect the loft to increase ..... or has it something to do with first having to understand what effective loft means ..........

Currently with hitting the ball more in the upswing with my 10.5* Cobra S2 Driver I have a high ball flight, would like a lower ball flight. Now it is in N (neutral) ....... what would be the outcome if I would put it to C (closed) ...... according to the Cobra website this would decrease the loft by 1.5* but as I now read it is the other way around ?????

So if I want a lower flight it should be in O (open) ..... according to the Cobra site increasing the loft by 1.5*, but actually the other way around......

very confusing !!!!!!

What a ball flight is to be expected with the C or O settings ?

On any normal non-adjustable club wether it's a driver or a 5i, opening the face will increase loft, closing it will decrease loft.  On an adjustable driver like my R9, (I don't know for certain about other brands but they are likely the same), rotating the club head actually does increase the loft because the head is not rotating on the shaft.  The head is rotating on a tip that's glued to the shaft.  The tip of the tip that the club head rotates on is not in line with the center line of the shaft, in other words it's "bent", so that when you turn it to another position it's turning "uphill" or "downhill" so to speak.  That's how the loft can increase or decrease.  Wether or not it's "closed" or "open" depends only on how you orient the grip in your hands, you can grip it anyway you like.

This issue is a bit difficult to grasp, but does make sense. Remember, the only reason you would open or close a club face is because your swing does not square the club face at impact. Don't think about what the loft of the club looks like at address, but rather at impact. Here is my best shot at explaining:

If you have a hard time squaring your driver, you are either closing it at impact or leaving it open AT IMPACT. Let's start with leaving it open at impact. Closing the club face should help you square the club at impact, given you have the same swing. It is true that closing the club face at address looks like it de-lofts the club. But, you need to look what the club face is doing at impact. If in fact the closed club face is square at impact (which was the only reason you adjusted the club face to begin with), you had to have rotated the club face in the open direction compared to address, and you have added loft.

Here's how it work. A 10.5* driver that has a 2* closed face still measures 10.5* at address. If you return the face to the same position at impact as at address then the loft is still 10.5* (for simplicity sake not taking into account angle of attack or dynamic loft here). But if you square the face at impact you must have rotated the head 2* open which adds about 1.2* of loft. So the effective loft is then 11.7*.

The opposite is true for opening the club face. Yes it will decrease the loft.

Hope that helps!

when you open the face by one degree at the start and bring it back to square at impact, you have decreased the loft by one degree.. you start from open to square..you can you tube it and it shows..its the exact opposite

The following are the specs for the Razr Fit Tour Authentic Cally driver that I own:

C -   1.6° Closed  adds 1.1 to loft
C °   1.2° Closed +.8
C +   0.5° Closed +.5
S - 0.4° Closed +.3
S ° SQUARE *0
S +   0.7° Open -.3
O -   1.5° Open -.5
O °   2.0° Open -.8
O +   2.7° Open -1.1

I have my 9.5 set to S+ which has the club measuring 9.5 degrees of loft when the face is .7 degrees open. When the club comes through impact squared, (closed relative to the open position) the effective loft is now 9.2 degrees. Conversely, if the 9.5 degrees is in the closed position the club is opened through impact making the effective loft higher.

Determining the "true" loft of an adjustable driver and describing how that changes with the various adjustment is by no means a simple matter. Attempts to do so methodically have only succeeded in muddying the waters even further, as far as I can tell.

http://wishongolf.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/adjustable-hosel-drivers.pdf

Wishon is trying to screw with everyone's head.

The adjustments work - I tell people to adjust the drivers as the OEMs instruct and watch the ball flight, and adjust until you get the flight you want.

TM even has a decent app to assist with the R1 ... it works.

As to the OP, I suggest you try what Cobra suggests, they must have suggestions, and go from there based on the ball flight you see.

the whole adjustable thing got to my mind really. Had a couple off bad weeks with the driver and 3 wood. always played them in neutral position.

went to change with settings and it got worse and worse. ending with no feel and confidence in my current R11.

Recently ordered new woods hopefully will be better after that. I ordered non adjustable driver and 3wood btw.

Mizuno JPX 825 9,5 and the 15 deg. 3wd. I had a fitting with these and damn i hit those well with the Fujikura Orochi Red Eye stiff shafts.

There is no driver on the marked that looks that nice behind the ball, square face, easy to align. well maybe the Titleist 913D2

The ball flight? goes high pretty damn high, but looking at it go up you still see it's not ballooning on you. the flight still looks penetrating.

You're in love Good luck with that But a black crown w a black face is not easy to align. There is no contrast Love is blind After the love is gone, go to trueaim.com good luck with it.

the white lines on the clubface do that. It's not that i'm in love, well on mizuno irons i am. But that will all the mizuno MP users say.

Nothing softer than a Mizuno.

As for the driver i just had the best numbers on them, and the head shape is not my preferred look, little to triangular for me.

But heck with that it performs. High launch with low spin and it goes straight what more do you want from a driver.

This is actually just a question regarding adjustable lofts.  I am thinking about purchasing a 17 degree titleist 913H and was wondering if I can easily adjust the loft myself...? or if I have to have someone do it for me professionally every single time?

ohh alright thanks.  just another quick question.  I am currently using a 16 degree taylormade rescue 2h... and the titleist 913h comes in at a 17 degree at the lowest... so judging by the grid given on the titleist site, i can only go either .75 or 1.5 degrees up or down?  No way to get it to 16 degrees?

You can only decrease loft by .75, and increase loft in increments up to 1.5.

You can get to 16.25 - it's fine. You've got to account for shaft length and quality of shaft - the choice of stock Titleist shafts are better than what TM offers as stock.

Hit it and see what happens with ball flight, forgiveness, feel, consistency, and distance - that how to judge the club.