Searching for ball

There's even a decision which matches your situation:

27-2b/3 Original Ball Is Beyond Provisional Ball; Player Searches Briefly for Original Ball, Plays Provisional Ball and Then Finds Original Ball

Q. A player's provisional ball comes to rest short of where the original ball is likely to be. After a two-minute search for the original ball, the player goes back, plays a second stroke with the provisional ball and then his original ball is found within the five-minute time limit. What is the ruling? 

A. The player must continue play with the original ball. Play of a provisional ball does not render the original ball lost until it has been played from the place where the original ball is likely to be or from a point nearer the hole than that place (Rule 27-2b). 

So everyone is clear, the "timer" does not stop in the OP's case.  The 5 minutes starts when the player began his search.  The 5 minute period can be suspended in certain situations but they involve either a suspension of play or finding "a" ball first.  In this case, nothing was done that would have stopped the 5 minute clock.  If someone other than the player had found the ball, the player is allowed time to get to the ball to identify it. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35 

Thanks, that answers it perfectly.  So the best thing to do is not search until I get up to original next time.

And don't forget, there is no reason to ever argue with your dumb partners (man, you got some doozies, all the more incentive to move up divisions :)) because if the scenario that you described happened, you just announce you're playing both balls through to the end of the hole, write down both scores somewhere, and take it as a group to the tournament director. He'll set you all straight.

I think that your friend was conflating two separate parts of the provisional rule.  What you CANNOT do is play a provisional AFTER going forward and looking for your original ball.  I think your friend confused this provision and thought it applied to continuing to play the provisional, not the original playing of the provisional.

27-2. Provisional Ball

a. Procedure

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball. (emphasis added)

What a dumb situation.  I know the rules are the rules and all, but he was clearly looking for the first ball to save time.  That's the sort of thing the rules should encourage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123 

What a dumb situation.  I know the rules are the rules and all, but he was clearly looking for the first ball to save time.  That's the sort of thing the rules should encourage.

What's dumb about it? It was ok for him to go forward, look for his ball and then go back and play his provisional before going forward to continue the search again. As long as it all happened within 5 minutes. 

The only thing you can't do it go forward to look for your ball, then go back to where you played from originally and put a provisional in play, and then return to searching again. I can't think of too many situations where doing that would save time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turtleback 

I think that your friend was conflating two separate parts of the provisional rule.  What you CANNOT do is play a provisional AFTER going forward and looking for your original ball.  I think your friend confused this provision and thought it applied to continuing to play the provisional, not the original playing of the provisional.

 

27-2. Provisional Ball

a. Procedure

If a ball may be lost outside a water hazard or may be out of bounds, to save time the player may play another ball provisionally in accordance with Rule 27-1. The player must inform his opponent in match play or his marker or a fellow-competitor in stroke play that he intends to play a provisional ball, and he must play it before he or his partner goes forward to search for the original ball. (emphasis added)

What is the purpose of this last provision?  It seems unnecessary at best, and at worst intentionally slowing down play.

As the OP has already learned, it's not any type of advantage to temporarily abandon your search to go back and hit a provisional, because the clock keeps ticking.  And I notice this rule specifically says before he "goes forward" to search for original ball.  Is that to say that if you walk off the tee area towards your cart and then somebody says "I think that is close to OB, you might want to hit a provisional" that you can't do it?  You have to go look for it and then come back and hit after you don't find it?

The whole point of a provisional is to help speed up play, why would they put in a provision that makes that harder?  I'm missing something here ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad 

What is the purpose of this last provision?  It seems unnecessary at best, and at worst intentionally slowing down play.

 

As the OP has already learned, it's not any type of advantage to temporarily abandon your search to go back and hit a provisional, because the clock keeps ticking.  And I notice this rule specifically says before he "goes forward" to search for original ball.  Is that to say that if you walk off the tee area towards your cart and then somebody says "I think that is close to OB, you might want to hit a provisional" that you can't do it?  You have to go look for it and then come back and hit after you don't find it?

 

The whole point of a provisional is to help speed up play, why would they put in a provision that makes that harder?  I'm missing something here ...

As you say once the search has commenced the timer runs for 5 minutes, so if the player wants to spend some of that 5 minutes returning to the tee to hit a provisional it's not necessarily going to slow down play. However if the player is only going to spend say 2 of his 5 minutes searching for the ball (his other 3 minutes spent returning to hit the provisional) he might as well just search for 2 minutes and if he doesn't find it return to play again under stroke and distance penalty. If he finds his ball it's going to be much faster, and if he doesn't it's no slower.

If the player goes forward most of the way, realises his ball might be lost, returns to the tee to hit a provisional, then goes forward again to start his search and spends 5 minutes looking then that's going to be slower than just searching and returning if the ball isn't found.

Regarding the meaning of "goes forward", there is a decision which clarifies the intent of the rule a little:

27-2a/1.5

Meaning of "Goes Forward to Search"

Q.With respect to Rule 27-2a, when has a player gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?

A.The sole purpose of Rule 27-2 is to enable the player to save time. The only way he can effectively do so is to play the provisional ball before going forward for the purpose of searching for the original ball. However, this provision should not be so narrowly interpreted to preclude a player from playing a provisional ball even though he has proceeded from where he last played in the direction of the original ball, e.g., in retrieving a ball or a different club to play the provisional ball. The Committee must consider all of the relevant facts in determining if the player did in fact go forward to search for the original ball.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordan 

If the player goes forward most of the way, realises his ball might be lost, returns to the tee to hit a provisional, then goes forward again to start his search and spends 5 minutes looking then that's going to be slower than just searching and returning if the ball isn't found.

How so?  It will be slightly faster by exactly the amount of time saved by only traveling most of the way.  Alternative #2 has him traveling all of the way, so that will take longer.  On the other hand, if you are already most of the way there, you're not going to go back now before you look because if you do and then come back and DO find it, then you just wasted a bunch of time.

Of course, around here, playing a busy course where you're waiting to hit your hext shot anyway, it's a moot point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordan 

 

 

27-2a/1.5

Meaning of "Goes Forward to Search"

Q.With respect to Rule 27-2a, when has a player gone forward to search for the original ball such that a provisional ball cannot be played?

A.The sole purpose of Rule 27-2 is to enable the player to save time. The only way he can effectively do so is to play the provisional ball before going forward for the purpose of searching for the original ball. However, this provision should not be so narrowly interpreted to preclude a player from playing a provisional ball even though he has proceeded from where he last played in the direction of the original ball, e.g., in retrieving a ball or a different club to play the provisional ball. The Committee must consider all of the relevant facts in determining if the player did in fact go forward to search for the original ball.

OK, so what they are saying is that this rule has some wiggle room.  (In that it's not really a rule, I guess)  You're not going to be penalized for doing something like I mentioned in my previous post, but they also don't want you doing what we're talking about either.  Going forward most of the way, then deciding to come back and hit a provisional, THEN going to look and actually finding it.