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After putting out, Is it legal to feel the grain direction of the green?

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 

I played on a green yesterday where the grain looked like it went every direction and no one in my foursome could read their putts. I had a beautiful four putt from five feet that everyone loved. I wanted to feel the grain, but we couldn't decide if it was legal to feel the grain after finishing the hole.

post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by neophyte View Post
 

I played on a green yesterday where the grain looked like it went every direction and no one in my foursome could read their putts. I had a beautiful four putt from five feet that everyone loved. I wanted to feel the grain, but we couldn't decide if it was legal to feel the grain after finishing the hole.

 

 

Yep, you could have.  Unless specifically prohibited by the Committee, you could have tested that putting surface before teeing off on the next hole.

 

16-1d pertains.....

 

 

 

d. Testing Surface

 

During the stipulated round, a player must not test the surface of any putting green by rolling a ball or roughening or scraping the surface.

 

Exception: Between the play of two holes, a player may test the surface of any practice putting green and the putting green of the hole last played, unless the Committee has prohibited such action (see Note 2 to Rule 7-2).

post #3 of 10

Also, grain doesn't really affect break, but it usually indicates the actual direction of the slope (99% of grain grows downhill).

post #4 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 (99% of grain grows downhill).

Interesting. I would have thought it would lean towards the sun's orientation or the direction a green's iron progressed. Where did you get this from?

 

Is it different for different grass types (eg bents, fescues, poa annua)?

 

Is there a grain with a 3mm cut?

post #5 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

Interesting. I would have thought it would lean towards the sun's orientation or the direction a green's iron progressed. Where did you get this from?

 

The sun's orientation changes throughout the entire day.

 

Grain is vastly over-emphasized in the world of golf (bent and poa greens don't really even have grain, not at today's mowing heights), as is the amount it affects break (barely any - it affects speed, making putts play faster or slower, but not break).

 

Mark Sweeney for a lot of this (he's done years of research, and its his area of expertise) and my own research.

post #6 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

The sun's orientation changes throughout the entire day.

 

Grain is vastly over-emphasized in the world of golf (bent and poa greens don't really even have grain, not at today's mowing heights), as is the amount it affects break (barely any - it affects speed, making putts play faster or slower, but not break).

 

Mark Sweeney for a lot of this (he's done years of research, and its his area of expertise) and my own research.

 

Indeed, but if you are in the northern hemisphere the sun is pretty well always below the E/W latitude so there is no incentive for the grass to grow northwards. But you imply that gravity(?) or some other factor is at work causing it to lean downhill. Any suggestions to what that is?

post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

Indeed, but if you are in the northern hemisphere the sun is pretty well always below the E/W latitude so there is no incentive for the grass to grow northwards.

 

We're getting off topic now, but even where I live the sun will trace a 160° arc across the sky, so it makes no sense to say that the grain follows the position of the sun.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

But you imply that gravity(?) or some other factor is at work causing it to lean downhill. Any suggestions to what that is?

 

Gravity is a factor, and water flows downhill. Grass that grew uphill would be growing into the ground again or beneath other blades. Grass that grows downhill will stay on top of the dirt and the leaves beside it.

post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rulesman View Post
 

 

Indeed, but if you are in the northern hemisphere the sun is pretty well always below the E/W latitude so there is no incentive for the grass to grow northwards.

 

If you live north enough the sun will be well north of E/W during the summer, during mid summer it does not even set at all. So all grass blades look like cork screws...

post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

The sun's orientation changes throughout the entire day.

 

It seems that Vivien Saunders and many other authors have got it wrong. They say that the grain is towards setting sun. Must be bermuda grass, I guess.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iacas View Post
 

 

Grain is vastly over-emphasized in the world of golf (bent and poa greens don't really even have grain, not at today's mowing heights), as is the amount it affects break (barely any - it affects speed, making putts play faster or slower, but not break).

 

 

 

Pls. don't tell that to the nr 1 professional in my country playing on European Tour since 2001. He just spent a while abroad practising how the ball will break close to the hole on different types of greens. For some reason he praised the experience and the learning.

 

P.S. Not all types of grass have real grain but some do and to a great extent.

post #10 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 

It seems that Vivien Saunders and many other authors have got it wrong. They say that the grain is towards setting sun. Must be bermuda grass, I guess.

 

Yes, if she (or they) says that, she is wrong.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignorant View Post
 

Pls. don't tell that to the nr 1 professional in my country playing on European Tour since 2001. He just spent a while abroad practising how the ball will break close to the hole on different types of greens. For some reason he praised the experience and the learning.

 

Grain grows downhill the vast majority of the time. It's pretty simple.

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