Help Needed Regarding weaknesses in my game.

**Nagah** · March 23, 2015

A brief background. I've been playing golf competitively for 22 years. I have been a single figure golfer for 10 Years. Currently a 7 hc.

Some stats - for my last 7 Rounds - played on different courses some 72 some 70.

scoring ave 78.86

fairways hit 81.3%

GIR - 42.9%

Total Scrambling 31.9%

Sand Saves 33%

Putts 1.87

Par 3 Ave 3.34

Par 4 Ave 4.42

Par 5 Ave 5.63

MY question is How do I improve?

Ive ordered LSW and I am Intrigued by the Ratio for practice.

I hit my Driver on aver 265 Yards Carry and roll

3 Wood 220 carry and roll

3 hybrid 195Carry and Roll

7 150 Carry and Roll

9 130 Carry and Roll

SW 90 Yards.

Im pretty accurate with my driver but I seem to add to my score with Converting the FIR to GIR?

BTW Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

**Lihu** · March 23, 2015

A brief background. I've been playing golf competitively for 22 years. I have been a single figure golfer for 10 Years. Currently a 7 hc.

Some stats - for my last 7 Rounds - played on different courses some 72 some 70.
scoring ave 78.86
fairways hit 81.3%
GIR - 42.9%
Total Scrambling 31.9%
Sand Saves 33%
Putts 1.87
Par 3 Ave 3.34
Par 4 Ave 4.42
Par 5 Ave 5.63
MY question is How do I improve?
Ive ordered LSW and I am Intrigued by the Ratio for practice.
I hit my Driver on aver 265 Yards Carry and roll
3 Wood 220 carry and roll
3 hybrid 195Carry and Roll
7 150 Carry and Roll
9 130 Carry and Roll
SW 90 Yards.
Im pretty accurate with my driver but I seem to add to my score with Converting the FIR to GIR?
BTW Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

I'm far from being an expert, but just looking at these stats, I noticed you are a little weaker on Par 4 and even more so on Par 5.

Have you looked into increasing your iron distances?

EDIT: The Callaway BB has a pretty nice lineup. . .

**Golfingdad** · March 23, 2015

A brief background. I've been playing golf competitively for 22 years. I have been a single figure golfer for 10 Years. Currently a 7 hc.

Some stats - for my last 7 Rounds - played on different courses some 72 some 70.

scoring ave 78.86

fairways hit 81.3%

GIR - 42.9%

Total Scrambling 31.9%

Sand Saves 33%

Putts 1.87

Par 3 Ave 3.34

Par 4 Ave 4.42

Par 5 Ave 5.63

MY question is How do I improve?

Ive ordered LSW and I am Intrigued by the Ratio for practice.

I hit my Driver on aver 265 Yards Carry and roll

3 Wood 220 carry and roll

3 hybrid 195Carry and Roll

7 150 Carry and Roll

9 130 Carry and Roll

SW 90 Yards.

Im pretty accurate with my driver but I seem to add to my score with Converting the FIR to GIR?

BTW Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

GIR is basically the most important stat, so you answered your own question right there. Work on your full swing, and most specifically, those irons. Also, aim for the center of the green on every shot outside of 100 yards.

Hit.

The.

Green.

!!!!!

**dkolo** · March 23, 2015

A brief background. I've been playing golf competitively for 22 years. I have been a single figure golfer for 10 Years. Currently a 7 hc.

Some stats - for my last 7 Rounds - played on different courses some 72 some 70.
scoring ave 78.86
fairways hit 81.3%
GIR - 42.9%
Total Scrambling 31.9%
Sand Saves 33%
Putts 1.87
Par 3 Ave 3.34
Par 4 Ave 4.42
Par 5 Ave 5.63
MY question is How do I improve?
Ive ordered LSW and I am Intrigued by the Ratio for practice.
I hit my Driver on aver 265 Yards Carry and roll
3 Wood 220 carry and roll
3 hybrid 195Carry and Roll
7 150 Carry and Roll
9 130 Carry and Roll
SW 90 Yards.
Im pretty accurate with my driver but I seem to add to my score with Converting the FIR to GIR?
BTW Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

A few points:

Your driver number is great. Outstanding even. Your iron numbers are fine in a bubble, but compared to your driver, they're really disappointing. I'm curious, what are you basing the driver number off of? Most folks can get a pretty accurate read on their clubs 150 in, so I usually assume those are more accurate.

If we take them all as gospel, I'd say you have a bunch of room for improvement with your irons.Do you hit them really high (I'm asking in case you're doing some weird dynamic loft / flipping thing). It's not so much that they're holding you back (you're a 6 handicap; you probably hit them quite well), but I feel like there's something there that might need addressing. There's a giant gap there that I'm trying to help make sense of, so I'm curious if you have any thoughts yourself on why that's the case. It's basically your driver in one class and everything else a ways below.

As @Golfingdad mentioned, GIR is an issue for you. GIRs come from your iron play. That's why I'd like to unpack that issue a bit because they could be connected and it sort of jumps out at me. Look forward to your thoughts!

**trickyputt** · March 24, 2015

Yeah I would also like to hear about those longer fairways and long irons and such. I never have believed those things just magically fit a person's swing.

**Nagah** · March 24, 2015

I get funny numbers with my irons. I should have mentioned which I forgot to do was that was measured in meters not yards. Example on Saturday I was 158 meteres 165 yards to the pin slightly raised green. I pumped it over the back. Other times I fall short even though I have the right club on my hand I miss greens. I also like to go pin hunting at times especially when I'm behind in scoring. I admit I do it but at times I just can't help it. So that's my story at the moment. It's frustrating knowing what I can shoot and what goes on a score card.

**Nagah** · March 24, 2015

That 158 meter club was a 6 iron.

**Lihu** · March 24, 2015

That 158 meter club was a 6 iron.

Units make a difference. ;-)

**Nagah** · March 24, 2015

After reading snippets of LSW is the glaring inadequacy of my own game is my approach shots. If the pin is cut on the front at say (I'll use yards) 155 yards I'll take a 7 iron and plan to get the ball around that 155 mark. Instead I should go the 6 iron and play to the middle of the green. Let's say again it's 155 to the back pin it's best I go for an 8 iron to the middle of the green. Problem is I feel as though I maybe giving up a birdie opportunity if I don't hit to the 155 yard mark. I think I'm leaking shots to par instead of making par if that makes sense.

**Nagah** · March 24, 2015

Units make a difference. ;-)

I usually hit a 6 iron about 165 yards. I use forward shaft lean so really it turns that 6 to a 5.

**Lihu** · March 24, 2015

After reading snippets of LSW is the glaring inadequacy of my own game is my approach shots. If the pin is cut on the front at say (I'll use yards) 155 yards I'll take a 7 iron and plan to get the ball around that 155 mark. Instead I should go the 6 iron and play to the middle of the green. Let's say again it's 155 to the back pin it's best I go for an 8 iron to the middle of the green. Problem is I feel as though I maybe giving up a birdie opportunity if I don't hit to the 155 yard mark. I think I'm leaking shots to par instead of making par if that makes sense.

That makes some sense. What I found is that hitting to the center is always going to be better. The times I've shot rounds to your handicap, I always hit the center. Once I started going for the pin I'd miss the greens or they'd roll off. The golfers who can shoot for the pin like that put a ton of spin on their shots and they know how much roll back they're going to get on any given day. Btw, the only reason I brought up your iron distances is our driver distances are similar, but my 7i carry is about 165 yards. It seems like a stronger approach game will change your par 5,4,3 statistics in the opposite way. Par 5 will be less than 4 which would be less than 3. Just a thought. Obviously, my game has a long way to go before I get to your overall skill level, but that's my 2 cents.

**Golfingdad** · March 24, 2015

Quote:

I also like to go pin hunting at times especially when I'm behind in scoring. I admit I do it but at times I just can't help it.

This is fine if you like to play that way, but you are going to hit less greens, and in the long run shoot higher scores because of it. But if you're the kind of guy who would rather trade 2 bogies for one birdie (not official stats, just hypothetical to make a point) versus making 3 "boring" pars, then you probably aren't going to want to change how you play. And that is totally fine. Some people like to be more risky, and that's great, but they'll have to accept that its going to pay off less often than playing conservatively in the long run.

(Truth be told, I sometimes "forget" to aim for the center of the green as well. )

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

Units make a difference.

Except its not really relevant in this case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nagah

After reading snippets of LSW is the glaring inadequacy of my own game is my approach shots.
If the pin is cut on the front at say (I'll use yards) 155 yards I'll take a 7 iron and plan to get the ball around that 155 mark.
Instead I should go the 6 iron and play to the middle of the green.

Let's say again it's 155 to the back pin it's best I go for an 8 iron to the middle of the green.
Problem is I feel as though I maybe giving up a birdie opportunity if I don't hit to the 155 yard mark.
I think I'm leaking shots to par instead of making par if that makes sense.

Sounds like you know exactly what you "should" be doing.

**mdl** · March 24, 2015

After reading snippets of LSW is the glaring inadequacy of my own game is my approach shots.
If the pin is cut on the front at say (I'll use yards) 155 yards I'll take a 7 iron and plan to get the ball around that 155 mark.
Instead I should go the 6 iron and play to the middle of the green.

Let's say again it's 155 to the back pin it's best I go for an 8 iron to the middle of the green.
Problem is I feel as though I maybe giving up a birdie opportunity if I don't hit to the 155 yard mark.
I think I'm leaking shots to par instead of making par if that makes sense.

That's the idea for sure. Just a minor note, if the green is 30 yards from to back and the pin is tucked back, say 4 yards from the back of the green, you probably don't want to aim for hitting the middle of the green (in the front/back direction). You probably want to choose a club/swing that you expect to stop ~5 yards short of the pin.

In general, the center of the green mantra is more for right/left aim. Rule of thumb is aim for exact pin distance when the pin is in the middle third of the green, a bit long with the pin in the front third, and a bit short with the pin in the back third.

Also, I agree something weird is going on with your irons and iron distances. Your 265 meter carry+roll drive translates to ~290 yards, which if anything is longer than my average drive, but similar. But my 6i (30˚) goes 180, not 165. Unless you've bent your irons really weak, you shouldn't be outdriving me and then hitting your irons 1.5 clubs shorter! So either you've misestimated your driver distance, or you could be hitting your irons a lot further. It sounds like your iron distance is very inconsistent for a ~7 cap, so I'd guess it's the latter.

**saevel25** · March 24, 2015

A brief background. I've been playing golf competitively for 22 years. I have been a single figure golfer for 10 Years. Currently a 7 hc.

Some stats - for my last 7 Rounds - played on different courses some 72 some 70.
scoring ave 78.86
fairways hit 81.3%
GIR - 42.9%
Total Scrambling 31.9%
Sand Saves 33%
Putts 1.87
Par 3 Ave 3.34
Par 4 Ave 4.42
Par 5 Ave 5.63
MY question is How do I improve?
Ive ordered LSW and I am Intrigued by the Ratio for practice.
I hit my Driver on aver 265 Yards Carry and roll
3 Wood 220 carry and roll
3 hybrid 195Carry and Roll
7 150 Carry and Roll
9 130 Carry and Roll
SW 90 Yards.
Im pretty accurate with my driver but I seem to add to my score with Converting the FIR to GIR?
BTW Thanks for taking the time to help me out.

If you read LSW then you know stats like Putts/Rd and FIR% are not that important of stats. I might say if you have 84% FIR then maybe you are not taking as many chances. Do you take driver out of your hand a lot to get that 84%? Unless the rough is like 6 inches thick, you'd do better to take driver when you can. The only time I don't hit driver is if the ball will carry and roll into a hazard on a normal shot, or there is a severe dogleg.

You are a 6 handicap with a 43% GIR. That looks pretty typical for your handicap. So yea you can improve if you ball striking. If game planning is costing you GIR then that is something you can improve on right away.

**Nagah** · March 24, 2015

Thanks for the help and advice. Having now read 3/4 of LSW it's blown my mind on the the simple concepts like shot zones and decision mapping. That alone is worth the price of the book. What this does is it gives you a blue print of your game and attaches it to any course you play. I've become more aware of what I'm capable of and what is the best plan of action on any given hole. Not simply having a go at the pin in order to gain birdies. It's about playing against old man par. Golfs not an easy game but I think anyone who wants to improve realizes how frustrating it can be. Thanks again fellow golfers for your help and advice. I appreciate it immensely. Let me know if I too can help anyone as I more than willing offer I kind word. Cheers Nagah. Ps Nagah stands for Not a golfers ass....

**mdl** · March 24, 2015

I can't remember the term in the book, but the mapping of landing spots from 80-90% of shots with each club, or a set of representative clubs through the bag, helped me too. I never did a more exact mapping with a monitor, but even just approximating it at the range helped me. For instance, at the time my "reasonable" miss with the wedges and short irons was a push. That upped my greens hit with short clubs, as when I miss left with those clubs it tends to be a big ugly pull that only might be on the left edge of the green if I aimed at the far right edge, but I have a fair number of misses right where they're off the green if I aim center but on the green if I aim center left.

**Lihu** · March 24, 2015

Also, I agree something weird is going on with your irons and iron distances. Your 265 meter carry+roll drive translates to ~290 yards, which if anything is longer than my average drive, but similar. But my 6i (30˚) goes 180, not 165. Unless you've bent your irons really weak, you shouldn't be outdriving me and then hitting your irons 1.5 clubs shorter! So either you've misestimated your driver distance, or you could be hitting your irons a lot further. It sounds like your iron distance is very inconsistent for a ~7 cap, so I'd guess it's the latter.

Oops, I didn't know he meant to translate all the clubs to meters. Then I drive only 245 meters (ones that make it without hitting something or slicing 2 fairways over), and carry my 7i 150 meters. Yeah, I agree that his irons appear to be 2 clubs shorter than should be. . .

**Nagah** · April 9, 2015

Went and hit 10balls with wedge.8 iron, 6 iron 4 hybrid, 3 hybrid 3 wood and driver on the launch monitor at my local golf shop. 9,7,gw and SW are all estimates based on the above readings from my wedge. Shot pattern dispersion as predicted was a slight draw to 6 iron. Fade the rest. Knowing these yardage and shot patterns I'm now able to go out and start to play some serious golf. Shot a 77 on Wednesday and was very pleased. If you are at all entertaining the idea of sorting out yardage and shot dispersion do it. It arms you with so much knowledge about your game.

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